Celtic cross first attempt....

[Midnight_Turner]

Please advise - this is a first attempt for me....any advice on how to improve would be greatly appreciated, I tried this padauk and beech, sides 1 and 3 were done at 35 degrees and 2 and 4 done at 45....


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[Buckeye]

Whatever the kerf of the blade is, you have to have exactly the same thickness in your inserts or it won't line up as you can see in your photo.

Peter

 

[yorkshireman]

Fair play to you for having a go Miles. I'm sure there's a tutorial on here if you search for it

 

[fortress]

What Peter said and the blank must be drilled dead centre. The four cuts on My knots are all 45 degrees. You have a nice contrast there Miles.

 

[Midnight_Turner]

Whatever the kerf of the blade is, you have to have exactly the same thickness in your inserts or it won't line up as you can see in your photo.

Peter

Hi Peter, what do you mean by the kerf?


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[wm460]

Good attempt Miles.

 

[Penpal]

The kerf is the width of the cut you have yo match with the infill.

Miles your first is beyond my best I have not tried this well done you.
'
Peter.

 

[bassethound]

Miles, good try just keep going and you will get there mate, keep the cuts all the same angle..:wink:

 

[Vic Perrin]

Brilliant first attempt Mate

 

[Buckeye]

Hi Peter, what do you mean by the kerf?


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The kerf is the thickness or width of the cut left by the blade.

Peter

 

[Walter]

Some good advice given already. The only thing I would add is that your blank needs to be dead square.

 

[Winemaker]

Well done you done better than me my first and last attempt fell apart

 

[bigbob]

Well done Miles as others have said about kerf and size of blank I prefer either all at 45 deg or lesser angle to make a larger knot provided all 4 cuts are at the same angle. I am experimenting doing celtic knots using very thin veneer and putting alloy (coke can) in the centre these just fit in the kerf of the bandsaw blade. I am still perfecting the jig I have built for the bandsaw and what I have discovered is not only do the four sides of the blank have to be exactly the same but the ends of the blank have to be exactly square(a lot bought off the shelf are not) against the stop block on the jig otherwise the cuts are not starting at the same place everytime you turn the blank for the next cut. Today I am off out to the workshop to make a stop block for the end of the jig so the cut stops at exactly the same place every time instead of me guessing what an 1/8th of an inch should look like. I have a small table saw I can cut celtic knots on too but the kerf is much wider and veneer much thicker but will have a go at this sometime think I get more fun out of building jigs and fooling about than the finished article.

 

[silver]

Firstly Miles, you have done a superb job of it.

Maybe not perfect but then for a first it was all going to be about learning.

I can only give you what I do, but that may not be the right way. I only know it works for me.

Firstly ensure that the pen blank is square, all side are equal.

If using the slotted method (that is where you don't cut completely through the wood and leave a very small piece attached so you can insert the infill) check the thickness of your blade (including the teeth pitch, that is called the Kerf) that you are using to cut the angle in the blank.

You then need to have a piece of infill cut to the same thickness as your saw blade, if you find it tight to slide the infill in the sand it down a little to allow for glue thickness and easier to slide in.

I would recommend that you make a saw jig up so that you cut the blank in the same place every time, otherwise. Mark a line around your blank at right angles all the way around the blank. That will be your start point.

Cut at an angle of 60degrees ( that's where everyone else will disagree with me) cutting and leaving around 2mm left and not cutting completely through the blank.

You then glue your infill in to position, once the glue is dried you will then need to make sure the infill is cut back and sanded down so that all the sides of the blank are equal again. As for glue, it doesn't really matter what you use, any wood glue or dare I say it CA:wink:

Complete all 4 sides in the same manner then you will have the start of your cross.

Once all infill are glued up you then need to make sure you drill your blank centrally to the blank, otherwise the cross will be off set and won't have all sides equal.

Hope this helps.

Remember, depending on the woods used you may get bleed through from the darker woods to the light ones. So make sure sealers are used prior to sanding.

Look forward to seeing the results..

Oh, there is the "rats nuts" method for an 8 sided cross as well.

 

[Penpal]

Well done Miles as others have said about kerf and size of blank I prefer either all at 45 deg or lesser angle to make a larger knot provided all 4 cuts are at the same angle. I am experimenting doing celtic knots using very thin veneer and putting alloy (coke can) in the centre these just fit in the kerf of the bandsaw blade. I am still perfecting the jig I have built for the bandsaw and what I have discovered is not only do the four sides of the blank have to be exactly the same but the ends of the blank have to be exactly square(a lot bought off the shelf are not) against the stop block on the jig otherwise the cuts are not starting at the same place everytime you turn the blank for the next cut. Today I am off out to the workshop to make a stop block for the end of the jig so the cut stops at exactly the same place every time instead of me guessing what an 1/8th of an inch should look like. I have a small table saw I can cut celtic knots on too but the kerf is much wider and veneer much thicker but will have a go at this sometime think I get more fun out of building jigs and fooling about than the finished article.

For a long time when I kicked on I made my own lathe etc my wife remarked I was having so much fun sourcing material, welding frames. I bought a half ton meat saw that I converted to using bearing guides and eliminated the sliding fence. It had a great depth of cut so I cut up burl etc easily, it had a four hp motor single phase (very old) when I bought it I ran it first on a long 10 amp lead to the blokes nearest power point, the lead never even got warm (very impressed). Bought many items that demanded extensive work done on them to fit my budget.

Peter.

 

[Midnight_Turner]

So this is my second attempt, here are the changes I made -

1 - I didn't cut all the way through the blank, just left a couple of mil
2 - I matched the thickness of the inlay to the thickness of the bandsaw blade
3 - I set the table top of the bandsaw to 45 degs as per the PowerPoint inspiration from Terry

Just wish I hadn't used acrylic for the inlay else it would have been better I think, especially in terms of the finishing - now I feel like I can really play - but please I am open to constructive criticism here so please go ahead


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[silver]

Looking better, but what are you trialing it out on complete kits?

I started off just making the cross on a piece of scrap wood and turning it to see how good it looked. No need to chuck it on a kit to see what it looks like Miles.

Again tho I would have done it at 60 degrees, but I don't follow rules and do what others do..

The cross look as though it's not quite started off in the exact same place each time, hence it looks a little low on one side.

do you have a jig to make sure it's starting off in the right position every time?

What are you cutting the angle with? I used my band saw and the tension wasn't right and noticed that when I pushed the blank through it "kicked" slightly just enough to make the cross "cross eyed" so to speak.

The only other thing for me is the overall finish of the blank, looks like it's not quite smoothed and maybe picking up on the edges of the cross and showing signs of glue.

By the way, acrylic and plastic is normally very good for Celtic cross work.

 

[Midnight_Turner]

Looking better, but what are you trialing it out on complete kits?

I started off just making the cross on a piece of scrap wood and turning it to see how good it looked. No need to chuck it on a kit to see what it looks like Miles.

Again tho I would have done it at 60 degrees, but I don't follow rules and do what others do..

The cross look as though it's not quite started off in the exact same place each time, hence it looks a little low on one side.

do you have a jig to make sure it's starting off in the right position every time?

What are you cutting the angle with? I used my band saw and the tension wasn't right and noticed that when I pushed the blank through it "kicked" slightly just enough to make the cross "cross eyed" so to speak.

The only other thing for me is the overall finish of the blank, looks like it's not quite smoothed and maybe picking up on the edges of the cross and showing signs of glue.

By the way, acrylic and plastic is normally very good for Celtic cross work.

Thank you for the points there, I put it on a kit as I am curious to see the finished article, I have a disassembler tool and take it apart afterwards ;-)

As for the finish you mentioned I'm not too sure why it went like that when the padauk looked so nice... I'm going to try again on Tuesday night, and take on board another one of your points which was smooth the blank down after every glue session - I was getting too impatient. Also I am wondering if it went like that because the bandsaw leaves a slightly ridged finish when I am cutting for the inlays...I wonder if it's because I didn't clamp after glueing - I just sprayed it with accelerator and moved on to the next cut!

I am much happier with the set up - the bandsaw table top goes up to 50 degs so I'll whack it up to that and see what happens next not thinking about a jig yet - I'm really not that clever, just abusing the bandsaw as much as I can really!


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[silver]

the bandsaw table top goes up to 50 degs so I'll whack it up to that and see what happens next not thinking about a jig yet

No problem Miles.

Just a question, why are you using the table rather than using a mitre fence? Would be easier for a fence and can get it to any angle you want up to 90degrees.

The band saw is good, would be an easier cut and smoother if you use a mitre fence and make an even better one with a jig.

If you need anything then you can pm me and can talk it over, sometimes easier to talk it over.

 

[bigbob]

Hi Miles you would be better building a jig what you need is accurate repeatable results and it will become a chore keep tilting the bandsaw table then setting it up vertical. What you need is hardwood to fit in the mitre slot of your bandsaw I cut two from Oak as I want to make a circle cutting jig I went out and made my endstop today all the mitre cutting jig is a sheet of plywood glued and screwed to the runner that fits in the mitre slot and a fence fixed at 45 deg and a stop I would take a picture of mine but the shed is all locked up and its getting late here is my first effort from the Jig you will notice that the celtic cross is not right this is because the end of the blank was not properly squared I have learned to do it a bit better now.

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