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Cherry Prussian Sea Fountain Pen

ValleyBoy

Graduate Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2019
Posts
770
Location
Cardiff
First Name
Ash
Good evening pen people.

Another slow news week 😳 so I spent a bit more time in the workshop.

Today was a bit uneventful as I spent the entire time turning square blanks round. I did 65 in total. (I know, I can become a little bit Forrest Gump once I start).

Anyway earlier in the week I did make a pen and it’s pictured below. I thought I’d take a second to touch on something that was raised on another thread and it’s to do with pen sizes (diameters) and the various fountain pen nib options and sizes.

First of all a brief explanation on naming conventions. When it comes to nibs they are usually referred to by the make and the size. E.g. Bock no8, Jowo no6 etc. The number refers to the diameter, in mm, of the feed upon which the nib (the metal bit) sits. This is then encapsulated within the housing (usually friction fitted) and the housing usually has external threads that screw into the section. So the number doesn’t describe the physical size of the nib housing, which is the information you really need when making the section, however it does have a bearing on it. It is true that higher numbered nibs have wider diameter housings.

And the 3 most popular nib sizes are no5, no6 and no8.

So if you want to make a section for a fountain pen you do need to know the specific dimensions of each nib housing, and they are usually stepped so the diameter changes across its length. You also need to know the thread size (diameter and pitch) which varies between makes and sizes.

Consequently when you are deciding the cap threads you want to use for your pen then you need to consider what size nib you are going to use. The reason is that the cap threads dictate the maximum diameter of the section (since it needs to fit inside the cap) and thus the nib needs to fit inside the section.

When it comes to triple lead taps and dies the readily available sizes are 12mm, 13mm, 14mm and 15mm. My rule of thumb when making pens is to try to keep a wall thickness (of any part of the pen) to a minimum of 1mm. So, based on my knowledge of the various housing sizes, I tend to do the following (I don’t have all the housing dimensions to hand but this is just from memory/experience) :

No 5 - 12mm or 13mm
No 6 - 13mm or 14mm
No 8 - 14mm

Of course this is just my preference and you can put a no8 nib in a 13mm pen or a no5 nib in a 14mm pen too. I should also mention that I don’t make 15mm pens.

Anyway as you can tell the nib-to-cap threads relationship is an important one and any design decisions are naturally influenced by both the technical considerations and the overall aesthetic and usability of the pen.

The pen shown below has 13mm cap threads and a Bock no6 nib. Just so you can see how it looks. From memory the Bock housing is around 8(ish) mm diameter at the widest point and the section is around 12mm at the ends with a waist of around 11mm.

Hope this helps a little.

Cheers
Ash

IMG_2143.jpegIMG_2145.jpegIMG_2148.jpegIMG_2134.jpegIMG_2138.jpeg
 

Padster

Graduate Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2021
Posts
642
Location
Leicester
First Name
Paddy
1. Lovely pen as always!
2. I'm not certain I've made 65 pens total! (ok probably but!)
3. And again in English.... I have a feeling its all to do with that black art of Kitless :scratch_head:
 

ValleyBoy

Graduate Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2019
Posts
770
Location
Cardiff
First Name
Ash
1. Lovely pen as always!
2. I'm not certain I've made 65 pens total! (ok probably but!)
3. And again in English.... I have a feeling its all to do with that black art of Kitless :scratch_head:
Ha - I was wondering how much sense I was making as I wrote it 😂.
 

alpha1

Fellow
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Posts
1,258
Location
middlesbrough
First Name
Dave
A cracking pen. Thanks for the info very usefull I have saved it to my PC. I am going to see if I can set my cross slide at an angle to be able to cut the section on the metal lathe.
 

flexi

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Posts
6,515
Location
Maidstone
First Name
mark
That's a lovely combination as always mate, the accents and fineals all work extremely well.... Very well done indeed :drool: :drool:
 

Paul-H

Full Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2023
Posts
113
Location
Kent
First Name
Paul
Hi Ash, a quick question if I may.

As one of the few custom pen makers who actually fits a cap clip, do you make your own clips or have you found a reliable supplier.

Thanks

Paul
 

silver

General dogsbody
Executive Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Posts
6,304
Location
Somewhere in Staffordshire,
First Name
Eamonn.
As usual Ash, your kitless pens are stunning and the colour combinations are to perfection.

I have a great load of taps and die's that I haven't used in a number of years, had thought of selling them at one point but when I see your pens I get that "buzz" back and think of getting them out and start making again. It will happen one day.!

Thanks for posting as I love seeing them so keep it up.
 

DuncSuss

Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2023
Posts
69
Location
Wilmington, MA
First Name
Duncan
Nice pen (again!) Ash.

One tiny detail you didn't mention in your description of how you arrive at the dimensions of the section is that the hole it must fit into is the *minor* diameter of the tap used inside the cap. This is more likely to be close to 12mm than 13mm in the case of a 13mm triple-lead thread.

Easy trap to fall into the first couple of times making a kitless - no need to ask me how I know this :rolling:
 

ValleyBoy

Graduate Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2019
Posts
770
Location
Cardiff
First Name
Ash
As usual Ash, your kitless pens are stunning and the colour combinations are to perfection.

I have a great load of taps and die's that I haven't used in a number of years, had thought of selling them at one point but when I see your pens I get that "buzz" back and think of getting them out and start making again. It will happen one day.!

Thanks for posting as I love seeing them so keep it up.
Thanks Eamonn

And yes you should definitely give it a go - it’s not as hard as everybody makes out. It’s much harder… 😂

Seriously, it’s really not and if you do decide to have a bash then give me a shout if you want any tips or advice.
 

ValleyBoy

Graduate Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2019
Posts
770
Location
Cardiff
First Name
Ash
Nice pen (again!) Ash.

One tiny detail you didn't mention in your description of how you arrive at the dimensions of the section is that the hole it must fit into is the *minor* diameter of the tap used inside the cap. This is more likely to be close to 12mm than 13mm in the case of a 13mm triple-lead thread.

Easy trap to fall into the first couple of times making a kitless - no need to ask me how I know this :rolling:
Thanks Duncan and thanks for pointing that out as I realise I didn’t make it clear in my post.
👍👍
 

silver

General dogsbody
Executive Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Posts
6,304
Location
Somewhere in Staffordshire,
First Name
Eamonn.
Thanks Eamonn

And yes you should definitely give it a go - it’s not as hard as everybody makes out. It’s much harder… 😂

Seriously, it’s really not and if you do decide to have a bash then give me a shout if you want any tips or advice.
Thanks for the inspiration Ash, once I get back in to the workshop again I will have to get back in to making a few again.

I have done some before Ash, but never up to your standard.

My old man used to make them many tears ago (he passed in 2010 and dementia hit him a good 8 years before that) he had gathered a lot of taps and dies, I added some to that collection with the Bock taps and a few triple and double start taps and dies of different sizes. He even had some ACME taps and dies, which I know he used at some point but I never got around to using them myself.
 
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