Chestnut Melamine instead of CA

[L33]

I may have asked this before, but until now never got round to using it...but taking advice from everyone because of the issues I have with ca fumes, I'm looking at some wipe on Chestnut Melamine as an alternative.

Has anyone used this (wipe on) and can anyone confirm its as good, strong, long lasting etc as CA? CA isn't the easiest to tolerate, but you can't deny that the finish is rock solid...hopefully the melamine is a suitable alternative.

 

[Penpal]

Interested in this discussion, no horse in the race already made up my mind.

Peter.

 

[Doug]

Lee, I have the same problem with the vapours off CA but as it is so quick & useful particularly when segmenting & glueing inlays I've had to adapt how I work so I can continue using it.
One of the best solutions I've found is simply running an extractor in the vicinity I'm working (preferably piped outside the workshop) the fumes are easily removed so the extraction doesn't need to be too close to the work piece.

 

[Walter]

CA isn't the easiest to tolerate, but you can't deny that the finish is rock solid...hopefully the melamine is a suitable alternative.

Well, actually I can deny that a CA finish is rock solid. It can crack especially if applied too thickly or if the pen is dropped and it can deteriorate over time especially if cheaper brands are used. It is not the ultimate finish that some would have us believe and as I have said many times before no-one but pen makers thinks it is a finish at all.

I have been using acrylic and melamine lacquers for a while now and have found the finishes to be both hard wearing and long lasting. I know Phil Dart uses melamine too and no doubt he will agree with me that it is a very suitable alternative indeed. The only caveat I would add is that melamine gives more of a satin finish than the high gloss you get with CA or acrylic lacquer.

I also agree with Doug's comments as regards extraction. Even if you are not suffering adverse reaction to the fumes the risk is too great not to take sensible precautions.

 

[AllenN]

Following the earlier discussion on Melamine and having to be hones forgotten Phil's excellent earlier post on using liquid melamine, I had a play with this yesterday. I followed Phil's idea of putting the liquid on using a tissue rubber, buffing with a clean rubber more or less immediately and then repeating for four coats. After that I left it to harden overnight, buffed again and got a nice slightly satin finish on Olive. I applied a bit of resin polish which is really a very fine buffing compound and then a quick coat of microcystalline wax. The result is lovely to my eye. Obviously I cannot say how hard wearing it will prove but it looks fine. I will use this on a pen later and then post something if it turns out OK.
I did run my extractor venting out of the window which is something I always do anyway. I see no point in breathing in anything that I do not need to.

 

[Bill Mooney]

I've had ca craze on my pens after a while so have used acrylic lacquer or melamine for a while now with no problems. When I use melamine I use Phil's method to good effect.

 

[L33]

gonna order the Chestnut Gloss Melamine tonight ( which is strange because it says it dries Satin) and see how that goes. One good thing to come of my CA reaction was that I bought a decent mask which I now use with other finishes like my oils etc...so every cloud etc. I've not given up on CA just yet, but a nice alternative like Melamine would be welcome. I've mastered what I class as an excellent CA finish...but worried about starting from scratch trying melamine...but keen to learn and expand my knowledge. :)

 

[Phil Dart]

I don't have any point to prove, or related products to sell regarding finishes, but Melamine is my finish of choice for wooden pens and has been for many years. If you can successfully apply CA as a finish, applying melamine will be a doddle. Despite saying satin on the tin, you actually get a nice high sheen - I can't say it's a gloss because it isn't, but if you end up with less than a high sheen, you're doing something wrong. I suppose you could say the finish your aiming for is gloss to the same extent that gloss paint is gloss, but not to the extent that CA is gloss.

My technique these days (we all evolve how we do things) is after the sanding sealer, I apply the first two coats with the lathe running and burnish with it running, then all subsequent coats are applied with the lathe stopped. I turn on the lathe to burnish between coats. The modification to my method came about by necessity, as previously I was using a lathe that could run in reverse, so I used to reverse for alternate coats, all running. That lathe is currently in pieces and the one I've been using for the last 6 or 7 months only runs one way, and I found that I could improve things by stopping the lathe to apply all the coats subsequent to the first two.

But the very best tip I can give you Lee, and anyone else reading this, is after your final sanding, before applying the sanding sealer, burnish with the shavings, first with the lathe running, then vigorously with the grain with the lathe stopped. The difference in the final finish between doing that and not doing that is enormous.

I hope that helps.

 

[billyb_imp]

Having read Phil & Walters assessment of: use of & how to, with different finishes, I moved into the melamine camp towards the end of last year. If its good enough for them two its got to be good enough for the likes of me.

I have always preferred the look of the majority of the non CA finish because the pens still look like just a bit of shaped wood with a nice finish instead of something covered in plastic, even though i've done dozens in CA, but, no more.

Thanks to Phil & Walter for showing me the way.

 

[Sgreen]

I love reading how everyone finishes their pens. I don't use CA as a finish because I have chronic asthma and one smell of that stuff starts me wheezing. Funny but I am ok with using it to stick tubes. I use various types of wipe on finish such as wax22 and melamine. Tried spray on lacquer which is excellent but again gets on my chest.
I still haven't found "the finish," reading some of the comments I doubt I ever will.

 

[Burt25]

I use both wipe on and aerosol versions of Chestnut melamine lacquer. If I want satin finish, I use the wipe on in a manner similar to Phil's method. With the aerosol however you can achieve a glass-like gloss finish. I apply 3 coats of it over cellulose sanding sealer, sand down to 12000 and then buff with a Meguiars car Polish to give a stunning finish. Both wipe on and spray are excellent products. I stopped using ca a few months ago.

 

[L33]

I don't have any point to prove, or related products to sell regarding finishes, but Melamine is my finish of choice for wooden pens and has been for many years. If you can successfully apply CA as a finish, applying melamine will be a doddle. Despite saying satin on the tin, you actually get a nice high sheen - I can't say it's a gloss because it isn't, but if you end up with less than a high sheen, you're doing something wrong. I suppose you could say the finish your aiming for is gloss to the same extent that gloss paint is gloss, but not to the extent that CA is gloss.

My technique these days (we all evolve how we do things) is after the sanding sealer, I apply the first two coats with the lathe running and burnish with it running, then all subsequent coats are applied with the lathe stopped. I turn on the lathe to burnish between coats. The modification to my method came about by necessity, as previously I was using a lathe that could run in reverse, so I used to reverse for alternate coats, all running. That lathe is currently in pieces and the one I've been using for the last 6 or 7 months only runs one way, and I found that I could improve things by stopping the lathe to apply all the coats subsequent to the first two.

But the very best tip I can give you Lee, and anyone else reading this, is after your final sanding, before applying the sanding sealer, burnish with the shavings, first with the lathe running, then vigorously with the grain with the lathe stopped. The difference in the final finish between doing that and not doing that is enormous.

I hope that helps.

Sounds like a plan...Ive not used sealer on a pen before, but i do have some...stuff smells great...so it can't be good for you haha. Gonna get the melamine early this week and hope to try it on some olive wood Ive prepared for some Zetas...(mainly because the wood is already to go.) Depending on wether or not the olive wood suits the Tempests Ive ordered from you, Im hoping to use it for those. :) I'll try following your method and see how things go...only ever seen one other person burnish with shavings and that was Colwyn (i think thats his name) who runs the Axminster courses...never seen anyone turn so fast as he does!

 

[wm460]

Well, actually I can deny that a CA finish is rock solid. It can crack especially if applied too thickly or if the pen is dropped and it can deteriorate over time especially if cheaper brands are used. It is not the ultimate finish that some would have us believe and as I have said many times before no-one but pen makers thinks it is a finish at all.

.

Well said.:bravo:
Also it deteriorates in the sunlight.

 

[Phil Dart]

Sounds like a plan...Ive not used sealer on a pen before, but i do have some

I dilute my sanding sealer with thinners - roughly 2 parts sealer to 1 part thinners. That helps it to penetrate the wood more, rather than just sit on the surface. I brush it on generously, lathe stopped, then immediately wipe it off with the grain, lathe stopped - as soon as the "wiping off tissue" begins to drag (usually after only about 7 or 8 passes) turn the tissue round and carry on with a clean, dry piece. Then I run the lathe to burnish.

That process alone, combined with the shavings procedure I mentioned, is enough to give the wood a nice shine - but it doesn't have any depth to it or any resilience, hence the need for the melamine coats on top.

 

[L33]

I dilute my sanding sealer with thinners - roughly 2 parts sealer to 1 part thinners. That helps it to penetrate the wood more, rather than just sit on the surface. I brush it on generously, lathe stopped, then immediately wipe it off with the grain, lathe stopped - as soon as the "wiping off tissue" begins to drag (usually after only about 7 or 8 passes) turn the tissue round and carry on with a clean, dry piece. Then I run the lathe to burnish.

That process alone, combined with the shavings procedure I mentioned, is enough to give the wood a nice shine - but it doesn't have any depth to it or any resilience, hence the need for the melamine coats on top.

Thanks Phil...I'm gonna flick back and piece all your info together and write it down and go through it step by step and hopefully I'll be able to give the pens a decent finish. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes... :)

 

[donwatson]

Thanks Phil...I'm gonna flick back and piece all your info together and write it down and go through it step by step and hopefully I'll be able to give the pens a decent finish. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes... :)

+1 for that idea

 

[L33]

Ok...hopefully Phil you'll see this post :) I got a delivery of Chestnut Wipe On Melamine today so thought I'd give it ago. The plan was to read your tips, write them down and have a go. Problem was, I had a short window of opportunity and in that same window, my iPad wouldn't let me log onto here properly. So I tried remembering what you said and see how it went. I'm not sure what I think of the end result as I'm not sure what I should be expecting. The pic shows the finished pen, I'm not sure what I think. It almost feels like there is no finish on, but I guess that's because I'm used to CA. I try and list the full process here...perhaps you may be able to comment on my method and also wether the finds came out as you'd expect?

Ok....

Firstly, I turned to size. Then I sanded to 1000 grit.

Then I remember you said burnish...but I wasn't sure what that meant...however, I guessed so I picked up a load of shavings in my hand, spun the lathe and rubbed in the shavings.

Then, I wiped on some sealer. Once dried I wasn't sure if it was to be sanded off as it was very smooth, so I got the micro pads, last 5 up to 12000 and polished the sealer :)

Then I applied a wipe on coat of melamine. Let it dry for a few minutes and repeated 4 times in total. Wasn't sure wether to sand in between so I just got a clean rag and spun the lathe rubbing a dry rag on the pen blank.

After 4 coats, I let it dry for 15 mins and rubbed burnishing cream on. After rubbing the cream out, I then went for the 5 micro mesh pads again.

The result is the pen you see.

I wasn't sure if I rushed things, or wether I should have waited a few days before burnishing with cream or even waited a few days before assembling the pen etc.

It'd be interesting to know your thoughts...very different to applying CA, but at the same time, similar :)

View attachment 32589

 

[Phil Dart]

Hi Lee - I think you are probably right when you say there feels like there is no finish on your pen. You have taken it off with the burnishing cream. I admit that I've never made it easy for people to follow my method - that's nothing deliberate on my part, its just that there are references to parts of my method all over the forum and I've never written it down comprehensively in one place. So that is what I will do, and post a thread about it. I will also put it in the tutorials section eventually, but I confess I still don't know how to do that so I'll have to ask Jim to tell me.

Anyway, I'll post a thread later today or tomorrow, and you'll be able to follow it from start to finish, but it doesn't involve micromesh or burnishing cream or buffing wheels, just sanding sealer, liquid melamine and a few bits of tissue paper.

 

[yorkshireman]

I'm looking forward to that Phil. I just drilled some eucalyptus burr today to have a go at one of your fountain pens and I want to finish it with the melamine.

 

[L33]

Hi Lee - I think you are probably right when you say there feels like there is no finish on your pen. You have taken it off with the burnishing cream. I admit that I've never made it easy for people to follow my method - that's nothing deliberate on my part, its just that there are references to parts of my method all over the forum and I've never written it down comprehensively in one place. So that is what I will do, and post a thread about it. I will also put it in the tutorials section eventually, but I confess I still don't know how to do that so I'll have to ask Jim to tell me.

Anyway, I'll post a thread later today or tomorrow, and you'll be able to follow it from start to finish, but it doesn't involve micromesh or burnishing cream or buffing wheels, just sanding sealer, liquid melamine and a few bits of tissue paper.

Thanks Phil...a couple of things I didn't understand was the burnishing...and how long to do it for. It felt good doing it though...felt like a real turner :) Looking forward to seeing your post...I'm sure it will be a big help to many.