confused dot gouge

[Tiny James]

Yep to much information overload.

I am so confused. So would some one please explain the difference between a spindle and bowl gouge.

If I'm right it's the shape of the chisel V shape is spindle gouge and a U shape is a bowl gouge or is it just the grind? But a Irish grind on a small to medium gouge looks like a spindle gouge.

I have two rouging gouges of the same size can I regrind one to a bowl gouge ?

James

 

[monophoto]

This is a subtlety - the basic difference is in the shape of the flute. Spindle gouges have a fairly shallow flute, while bowl gouges have a fairly deep flute that can be a pronounced U shape, a V shape, or parabola that is neither a U or a V. As a result, the bowl gouge is better when hollowing the interior of bowl, while the spindle gouge is preferred when doing fine details, buts these are really rough categories and there can be a lot of crossover.

Irish grind refers to the shape of the outer wings of a gouge rather than the shape of the flute. Irish grind means that the wings are swept back to form a more severe point. Irish grind is usually achieved using a jig that allows the gouge to be moved in an elliptical path as it is being ground (although some turners have mastered the art of doing an Irish grind by hand without a jig). The conventional grind is conical and is achieved by holding the gouge in one position while rotating the end against the grinding wheel or belt. Most gouges come from the factory with a conventional grind. There is a place for both grinds - because the Irish grind is more pointed and has longer wings, it tends to be well suited for cutting the interior sides of bowl, while the flat face of a conventional gouge makes it better for cutting the inside bottom of bowls.

Both spindle gouges and bowl gouges can be used on both spindle and bowl (face grain) turnings - if you have a selection, you can choose the tool that gives the best result. In both spindle and bowl gouges, the flute is ground into a round metal shank.

There is one notable exception - the spindle roughing gouge is a conventionally ground gouge with a circular flute and with a narrow shank. This tool is made by forging flat metal stock into a round shape. The spindle roughing gouge is intended for bulk removal of material on spindle turnings ONLY and should not be used on face-grain turnings. The reason is that the narrow shank is a weak point that can break with catastrophic results if you get a catch - which can easily happen when it is used to cut face grain.

 

[Penpal]

Spindles are between centres,Bowls are mainly held on one end,so you address a Spindle from the front and a Bowl front,back and sides so you need chisels that are shaped to allow safe entry,wings become important and the grind also.

Peter.

 

[21William]

This does both. :wink:

Ashley Iles HSS Martin Pidgen's All Rounder

 

[21William]

There is one notable exception - the spindle roughing gouge is a conventionally ground gouge with a circular flute and with a narrow shank. This tool is made by forging flat metal stock into a round shape. The spindle roughing gouge is intended for bulk removal of material on spindle turnings ONLY and should not be used on face-grain turnings. The reason is that the narrow shank is a weak point that can break with catastrophic results if you get a catch - which can easily happen when it is used to cut face grain.

The majority of SRG’s do indeed have small tangs. There are now several manufacturers though that produce SRG’s in the smaller sizes from a solid HSS bar. I have one made by Crown. :wink:

 

[Pierre]

Yep to much information overload.

I am so confused. So would some one please explain the difference between a spindle and bowl gouge.

If I'm right it's the shape of the chisel V shape is spindle gouge and a U shape is a bowl gouge or is it just the grind? But a Irish grind on a small to medium gouge looks like a spindle gouge.

I have two rouging gouges of the same size can I regrind one to a bowl gouge ?

James

No you can't change a roughing gouge to a bowl gouge, look at the join to the handle it has shoulders and will break and hit you in the teeth no matter the regrind. With the angle of the spindle roughing gouge to the spindle work, you can get a smooth cut with a decently sharpened tool but it wont be good for refined work . Essentially if you present a roughing gouge with the centre of the blade to the work it will chip it out roughly, and effectively. If you get the angle of that blade now to 45 degrees to the same piece of work, you will get a much finer and smoother cut and you will be able to go round corners this is the 'slide angle' for want of a better description (always assuming that you are sliding on the bevel) . The instant that you present it to the inside of a bowl the forces will normally break it and you will have the dodge dilemma ie you cant dodge fast enough.

A spindle gouge has an angle designed to slice wood at the side of the grain, much like a plane blade. A bowl gouge has a steeper angle and it designed to slice end grain but with a much stronger backbone so as to resist the forces inherent in trying, (much like an axe to keep the simile) The 2 forces are completely different, one slides the other bashes. What you can do as you get more refined is to create a bowl with a bowl gouge then as the last and final cut take a relatively large spindle gouge with a double bevel and use it to very finely slice the interior shape of the bowl so as to avoid the ripping that a bowl gouge or scraper does as the last cut. WHY? well any gouge doing an interior cut always jumps as a function of the depth/width of the bevel so you get scalloping. If you take a spindle gouge and give it its main bevel then a slightly steeper bevel on the edge for about a millimetre then the scalloping become much less and the inside curve much smoother since you have sliced the wood and not 'bashed' it.

I hope that made sense, if not pm me and I send you a photo of my tooling.

 

[wm460]

By memory P&N chisels are all milled from bar stock.

 

[wm460]

Found this on wood central

Of the several tools I have from the P&N line, three strike me as exemplary in design and performance. The first of these is the roughing gouge. To my knowledge, P&N is unique in offering roughing gouges milled from round bar stock, rather than the usual practice of forging from flat stock. This allows for a much heavier than average roughing gouge (relative to others of the same size) and a very sturdy transition from side walls to tang. The round tang is far stronger than the narrow flat tangs of other roughing gouges, and allows the gouge to fit into the round bores of steel handles. Milling from round stock also allows for side walls of a constant radius, unlike most roughing gouges where the upper portion of the flute is flared.

 

[Pierre]

Sadly Mark P&N is in Australia and does not sell in the UK or France so the postage costs for someone like me are prohibitive.

 

[21William]

P&N are not the only company to make SRG’s from solid bar. As I said earlier I have one made by Crown in the UK. Carter tools in America also make them. Carter tools were available from the Toolpost in the UK but as they’ve now closed I don’t know where you can get them.

Premium Woodturning Tools & Supplies | Carter and Son Toolworks

Look at the tang on this Carter 7/8” gouge, I can’t see anyone breaking it, that’s solid steel bar!

 

[Pierre]

Again it comes down to cost, I couldn't afford to have one like that in the picture sent to me from the USA, and so the only roughing gouges that I have seen (including the Crown one) have shoulders and a much thinner tang. If you have one from Crown that is similar to the Carter one then I would like to know where I can get one in UK because I turn some pretty large odd shaped pieces sometimes and would love one like that Carter tool.

 

[21William]

I bought my small Crown SRG at Axminster tools.

Crown Cryo Spindle Roughing Gouges | Axminster Tools