Cop26

[silver]

Not to get political and lets keep the thread on the point of the environmental views.

There is a lot of publicity at the moment and with it I'm getting asked "questions" of where I'm getting my wood and materials from.

I had a little thought and put things in place for any woods I now buy, things like FSC and having traceability is questions I now ask. You would be amazed on the answer I get.

So, my questions are!

1. What do you do or what plans do you have in place to be able to answer customer questions?

2. What ideas if any do you have with your wood stocks (if you have any) of the type that are now on the CITES register and come from the likes of the Amazon rain forest?

I have some Rosewood that my dear old Dad had been given back in the 1950's, there is no way I can prove where it has come from or prove when he had it. Yet I was asked today about where the wood had come from that I was showing them. I can only open and honest as I guess there will be stocks of this wood which may actually become worthless over time.

 

[Garno]

I think if you are honest with people and explain that the woods you have that are now CITES are not going to be available as an on going choice, they will understand.

 

[silver]

I think if you are honest with people and explain that the woods you have that are now CITES are not going to be available as an on going choice, they will understand.

Totally agree Gary,

I think at the moment people are "asking the question" as its spiked their interest.

I have researched it quite a bit over the years and the wood database is an excellent source of information.

Are Rosewoods (and Bubinga) really banned by CITES? | The Wood Database

 

[Neil]

Where the real issues stop and the politics begins? The FSC / PEFC debate? And even the Malaysians had the audacity to start their own scheme to try and convince the world that they had green chainsaws, but even Mr Magoo saw through that one! CITES has been infiltrated by the Americans using it as a tool against the Chinese! The Chinese start buying up wealth associated goods, rosewoods as a fine example and the Americans rally the troops and ban the stuff so that it’s ya boo sucks to the Chinese.

I’m afraid that I’m not very tolerant of individuals who approach my stand, not with an interest in the environment or rain Forrest preservation, but in an attempt to try and impose a little knowledge as some sort of “I’m right” statement. These are normally the same people who tell me that their next door neighbours vet turns wood and he uses nappy cream as a finish. I normally resort, when asked where I get my wood from, to “Swindon”, it sort of ends the conversation!

 

[Penpal]

It would appear Rosewoods from South America on Cities are freely available in Asia. I would appreciate some consistency. A good friend of mine made a magnificent pen using genuine Elephant Tusk completely genuine and kosher,the verbal crap he had to put up with,predudice and alian thoughts almost forced him to withdraw from this forum. My stash has some 40 and 50 yr old Rosewoods. I can use them with impunity and will when I can.I choose to suggest these days people look for theirown nchoices of timber. I have spent considerable money helping free of freight and timber ,no longer prepared because of the high cost of freight even and the extraordinary demands of Cophid security.Recently a 70.00 dollar purchase from America became 378.00 dollars AU,the extra all by skilled operaters. My Bank told me I was spoofed and refunded me and went hell for leather after the US people.One guy from the UK caused me to buy in Aussie blanks worth a considerable sum and then renig on my cost price at his request,never again.Still the sun is coming out now except for almost frosts in the morning. On the forum systems around the world replies such as where,how and when are not always very genuine. Never mind hope smiles eternal,I have a lengthy background in pen turning by contribution. This forum is theonly one in the world that is trying in the sense that after remarks they mostly take forever to clear or get distorted. All the best in solving minor problems of supply and demand.I love making pens.
Not bitter but now cautious being a pensioner for 25 years.

 

[Phil Dart]

It's a dilemma Eamonn, and I suspect that, given it is now apparently acceptable to tear down statues, remove paintings, and attempt to snowpake out the parts of history that are difficult to accept actually happened, whilst I strongly agree that our endangered and fragile world needs protecting from ourselves, I suspect that within my lifetime it will become unacceptable or even illegal to sell anything that is made from these woods without the proper licences or proof of provenance, even though they may have been made a hundred years ago. That has already happened with ivory, which ironically I believe is no bad thing, the reason being that it's fairly easy to introduce new, illegal ivory into the chain, so the only way to stop it is to ban it altogether.

My advice is to utilise your Dad's stash now. In another 15 or 20 years, I believe it will only be useful as firewood unfortunately, which in itself is the biggest irony of all.

 

[pittswood]

Likewise, what's happened to the so called petrol shortage? Flavour of the month, or talking topic.
Kelvin

 

[silver]

Where the real issues stop and the politics begins? The FSC / PEFC debate? And even the Malaysians had the audacity to start their own scheme to try and convince the world that they had green chainsaws, but even Mr Magoo saw through that one! CITES has been infiltrated by the Americans using it as a tool against the Chinese! The Chinese start buying up wealth associated goods, rosewoods as a fine example and the Americans rally the troops and ban the stuff so that it’s ya boo sucks to the Chinese.

Before I wrote this post I put a few names on the list of replies, yours was top of the list.. Mainly because I know that your heart is behind this, thank you for answering the post and I totally agree with you. But unfortunately the ones who shout loudest get listened too.

I’m afraid that I’m not very tolerant of individuals who approach my stand, not with an interest in the environment or rain Forrest preservation, but in an attempt to try and impose a little knowledge as some sort of “I’m right” statement. These are normally the same people who tell me that their next door neighbours vet turns wood and he uses nappy cream as a finish. I normally resort, when asked where I get my wood from, to “Swindon”, it sort of ends the conversation!

Neither am I, but......
1. I have a extremely valued customer that has sent to all their suppliers a request to ensure that they can be audited for traceability of suppliers and make sure that it doesn't conflict with their values. So hence the questions I posted here, just to see if anyone had any thoughts on it.

2. I have done few craft fairs and noticed a change with customers questions recently, which I have answered in many ways but in all honesty I can't provide a total trace of where the wood was sourced.

It's a dilemma Eamonn, and I suspect that, given it is now apparently acceptable to tear down statues, remove paintings, and attempt to snowpake out the parts of history that are difficult to accept actually happened, whilst I strongly agree that our endangered and fragile world needs protecting from ourselves, I suspect that within my lifetime it will become unacceptable or even illegal to sell anything that is made from these woods without the proper licences or proof of provenance, even though they may have been made a hundred years ago. That has already happened with ivory, which ironically I believe is no bad thing, the reason being that it's fairly easy to introduce new, illegal ivory into the chain, so the only way to stop it is to ban it altogether.

My advice is to utilise your Dad's stash now. In another 15 or 20 years, I believe it will only be useful as firewood unfortunately, which in itself is the biggest irony of all.

Phil, I get where you are coming from, certainly think ts time to utilise it. but I have many other types of wood I can't authenticate where I got it from.

 

[Garno]

Before I wrote this post I put a few names on the list of replies, yours was top of the list.. Mainly because I know that your heart is behind this, thank you for answering the post and I totally agree with you. But unfortunately the ones who shout loudest get listened too.




Neither am I, but......
1. I have a extremely valued customer that has sent to all their suppliers a request to ensure that they can be audited for traceability of suppliers and make sure that it doesn't conflict with their values. So hence the questions I posted here, just to see if anyone had any thoughts on it.

2. I have done few craft fairs and noticed a change with customers questions recently, which I have answered in many ways but in all honesty I can't provide a total trace of where the wood was sourced.




Phil, I get where you are coming from, certainly think ts time to utilise it. but I have many other types of wood I can't authenticate where I got it from.

Luckily for me my one and only sale I have had, the customer did not ask me any questions about where the wood for the pens was obtained.
As for the boxes I purchased from you, if any of the folk getting them with a pen this Christmas, ask me any questions about sustainability and authentication, they will need a doctors visit to remove them from a place where the sun will never shine (and we are not talking about the attic here)

 

[Bill Mooney]

I authenticate some of my timbers by age. They were cut down when they were freely available.
Some timbers I inherited from my grandad who died in 1963. Brazilian mahogany which I bought over 30 years ago, Burmese teak which I acquired in the sixties as well as other timbers acquired many decades ago. I also have the excuse of not being able to identify timber because I’m blind. (White stick to prove it).

 

[Curly]

I have a little wood that I bought over 40 years ago and I'll keep it for my own use. I have veneer that my father got from another old gent and I'll use that too. Now you could switch to non wood pen materials but they all require oil to make so there is another problem to overcome. Even a switch to plant based oil products just means more land clearing for farming. We could use acrylic blanks but are we ready for people walking up to the booth wearing polyester, nylon, polyethylene fleece, or any other number of plastic products and asking if the pens are oil based? You can try to stop deforestation and global warming all you want and never succeed because there are just too many people and as long as there are billions upon billions of us the trees will come down. Try to get the world to agree with only having one kid per couple.

Pete

 

[21William]

What about HempWood?

HempWood(R) Pen Blanks - HempWood.com - Woodturning Hemp

 

[Neil Lawton]

I have shed loads of CITES protected wood and I'd rather use it to beat people to death with it than burn it!
I recently taught a member of the Worshipful Company of Clockmakers to turn and he was bereft of Cuban Mahogany veneer. I gave him 6 solid table legs of the stuff and I've never seen an artisan so happy!
If you have rare woods that you are not sure what to do with make a sampler and frame it. It will increase in value for sure.

 

[silver]

Before I wrote this post I put a few names on the list of replies, yours was top of the list.. Mainly because I know that your heart is behind this, thank you for answering the post and I totally agree with you.

yours was 2nd on the list and I was getting worried you had given up. There is another one left but I'm not sure this will peak his taste buds..

I have shed loads of CITES protected wood and I'd rather use it to beat people to death with it than burn it!
I recently taught a member of the Worshipful Company of Clockmakers to turn and he was bereft of Cuban Mahogany veneer. I gave him 6 solid table legs of the stuff and I've never seen an artisan so happy!
If you have rare woods that you are not sure what to do with make a sampler and frame it. It will increase in value for sure.

Yep, like the idea of using them as a truncheon, but don't forget the lead..

Like the framing also, Just can't see them becoming the latest "Mona Lisa" in 2121.

 

[Neil Lawton]

yours was 2nd on the list and I was getting worried you had given up. There is another one left but I'm not sure this will peak his taste buds..




Yep, like the idea of using them as a truncheon, but don't forget the lead..

Like the framing also, Just can't see them becoming the latest "Mona Lisa" in 2121.

Bought a sampler for twenty quid in 2010. I'm not selling but just been offered £300 for it!

 

[Neil]

Certification schemes are just not appropriate to our level of consumption. PEFC generally certifies areas, and instils confidence in the buyer that the wood comes from an area over which the local authority exercises some degree of responsible authority. FSC is more rigorous and certifies individual landowners who have to have an audited stock replacement policy in force otherwise the certification scheme is withdrawn. Two types of certification exist, one for the production and one that accompanies the timber as a chain of custody system. The Americans didn’t like the PEFC system and thought they could do better so they dreamt up the SFI, sustainable forestry initiative, but the Europeans who started PEFC, didn’t like the American upstarts so they refused to recognise the SFI. The Canadians, well, they wanted their own so they use the Canadian Standards Association, but there’s tons of maple so no one really cares about that. The Malaysians got the hump that nobody would recognise any of their timber, which was not really surprising since they were hell bent on cutting it down as quick as they could so they started their own scheme, the Malaysian Timber Certification Scheme. No one took any notice of this as nobody believed them, not helped as with every purchased certificate they got a free HP deskjet and a certificate template to print their own chain of custody certificate.

Ok so you think I jest, well I probably do, but the UK govt basically threw in the official towel when they stated that certification to any of these schemes is deemed to signify that the wood is from a legal source.

The answer that I give to those who ask where I get my wood from, other than “trees” or “Swindon”, is that I source my wood from three sources, regulated and legally compliant hardwood importers, recycled furniture and offcuts from the acoustic instrument trade, and the results of my own chainsaw, non of which fall within the scope of the chain of custody certification.

When I purchased timber during my employment and bought 80 tonnes of European Oak, a chain of custody certificate was relevant, buying a 3x3x12 lump for spindle turning, it is not. This has all been said before, and I dare say it will be said again. I don’t know of any system for any level of business that has a meaningful life expectancy of more than 20 years before it degenerates into a meaningless political fiasco.

Perhaps the easiest way to protect the rain forest is to stop using palm oil which would mean that there is little purpose of the South Americans sharpening their chain saws, and since there is a world shortage of clinical morphine instead of burning the poppy fields we should recognise the production as a cash crop, control it, and that way stop the desecration of the Far East forests.

Right, time to get back in my box.

 

[Garno]

What about HempWood?

HempWood(R) Pen Blanks - HempWood.com - Woodturning Hemp

OOOhhh I do hope that they are not representative of the future of pen turning

They look more like slim blocks of shredded wheat with the coloured ones soaked in vegan friendly dyes

 

[21William]

What, you’ve not turned shredded wheat in epoxy yet?!

 

[21William]

Looks quite nice actually.

Hemp Wood Pen - Handmade - Gift

 

[silver]

What about HempWood?

HempWood(R) Pen Blanks - HempWood.com - Woodturning Hemp

Thank you William. Never seen those before.

I have just been given a piece of engineering wood that is like compressed wood chips and used for supporting joists. Apparently from reclaimed timber. I bet no one asked what the adhesive is made from and if it’s “eco” friendly.