Could do with some advice on dust extraction

[Burt25]

Happy Christmas everyone.

Ive been turning for a little while now and using a Trend AirAce mask which I fond reasonably comfortable, but I feel I need to supplement this with some form of extraction to reduce the amount of fine dust settling everywhere. I have been doing some reading online, but the more I read, the more confused I am! I ideally want to deal with the dust from my bandsaw and the lathe and was wondering what setups others are using that are working well.

Any advice would be welcome!
Thanks

 

[Terry Q]

Buy the largest system you can. Big diameter runs to your machines then get smaller where it hooks up to the tool. 6" line or larger. Gentle radius turns or two 45 degree elbows with a short straight between.. Avoid 90 degree turns if possible. Keep the use of flexible lines to a minimum. They disrupt air flow. The idea is to move the largest volume of air possible. Blast gates to shut off unused machines.

A portable machine you move between tools is also an option. Everything mentioned above still applies.

 

[21William]

I use a shop vac to collect the dust at source first. I also have an AC400 air filter as well.

AC400 Two Stage Air Filter with Remote 3 Speeds and Time Delay

This is in addition to wearing a face mask. After finishing work I leave the AC400 running on timer for an hour or so.

 

[Burt25]

Question is- am I best to go for a vacuum type machine designed for fine dust or a chip extractor with a pleated fine filter fitted to it?

 

[silver]

Ian,

The world of dust extraction and control can be tackled in many ways.

However the most important thing to be aware of is the order of dust control priority.

1- the most important part is control it at source "where you make it" that way it won't get all over your workshop or worse, in to your lungs.

2 - As mentioned by Terry, purchase the biggest extractor you can afford, that's in a way of money and space in the workshop.

3 - back that up with PPE, it sounds like you have got the airshield pro so the right move there.

4 - finally the room de-dusting unit is a suitable unit to have to carry on filtering after you have finished using your tools and takes away all of those fine particle matter you can not see.

As for choice. You can search the forum for past questions on this very subject. Search for dust extraction and you will find loads.

One in particular that is usefull is http://www.penturners.co.uk/tools-e.../14117-advice-needed-dust-chip-extractor.html

The most important thing to remember is that if you are using long pipe runs and have a larger workshop then the fan units (chip extractors) moving large volumes of air going through a pleated filter are the best in my opinion.

If your pipe work and workshop is small then go for the Vacuume unit which is hi suction and lower volumes of air shifted.

in the UK most DIY Units are 4" pipe work units fitted so it's fairly easy to obtain pipe work and install it to a workshop, the most important thing to remember on any installed system is that the airflow is maintained high enough to prevent any build up in the pipe work.

Any build up in pipe work is a fire hazard and saw dust will spontaneously combust and self heat and it will cause a fire if it's left there for long periods. Especially during the summer months (even in the UK)

Personally speaking, in reality a decent system in any DIY workshop would cost you in the region of £500 to be of anywhere near good enough.. £1000 and you are getting there..

Not much help I know but to be honest, unless we know exactly the size of the workshop, how many units are being de dusted and how much air is required for each unit to de dust them, how long the pipe work is, how many bends and what angle they are.. And how many machines are being used at any one time.. As you see I could never advise as everything needs to be taken in to account.

But in general the chip extractors ( with suitable filters) are known to be the better units.

 

[Penpal]

Some important aspects and machines include.

1. The Bandsaw.....It needs dust removal from two outlets on the saw one from as near to the bottom guide bearings and one down under, most good saws make provision but can be improved on.

Disk Sanders...Very important fine dust to remove a quality Sander will have a suitable outlet fitted, needs a strong suction.

Lathes ...three points of interest under or behind the cutting area, as near as practical above the cutting area to get that finer dust, a third one above in the room for general workshop dust.

Using plastic pipes our WW Guild guys thirty years ago set a length of plastic pipe on the floor fitted a decent Vac system to it, sprinkled sawdust along the tube it looked like a magnetic set of whiskers all along the pipe. Then a length of at the time 7.029 earth wire inside the whole length, marked improvement, then that step plus the same 7.029 stranded earth wire wound slowly along the length eliminated the whiskers of sawdust sprinkled. The icing on the cake is then earth the machine and the dust extractor to the internal, external earth wires.

If you choose a separate Shop Vac take it apart and cover the pleated filter in side with a stocking piece held on with larger rubber bands then to totally improve that look up Thien on Google and install a by pass filter using your cheap home made bypass that will collect the majority of the dust easily for you.

Words of warning all vacuum systems run at warp speed and can generate annoying harmonics requiring for me to use sound protection especially at the lathe.

An ideal in planning is to house the extractors outside away from neighbors or in planning the workshop try to muffle sound.

I vent my super fine dust from the lathe through the roof to atmosphere.

Using metal piping and joints earth each end to the machine and extractor using stranded earth wire. Wood Dust can be incendiary much like wheat dust in a silo.

A stitch in the early prep pays huge dividends later. I have taken pics over the yrs there are so many on this site with other peoples contributions. The main aim is to create a venturi effect for dust entering the extractor via a bypass system if possible. Works for me.

Kind regards Peter.

 

[wm460]

I have my shed set up like Terry said but used 4" PVC pipe I didn't know about that 6" was a lot more efficient when I installed it., I ducted it out side to a cyclone filter, the out let is 180° downwind from the shed door so I didn't put a filter on the outlet. My cyclone has a 2 hp motor on it from my chip collector.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/finewoodwor.../uploads/2016/09/05192501/cyclone-is-king.jpg

I have a 2 stage air filter hanging from the ceiling.

W326 | AP-12 Two Stage Air Filtration Unit | For Sale Sydney Brisbane Melbourne Perth | Buy Workshop Equipment & Machinery online at machineryhouse.com.au

If I a turning bowls I use a Trend Air Pro, when turning pens I use a these dust masks. The one with valves.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...8beXv1yNzqvOqcbNA&sig2=-z03oSVa82M48KjCl0CsSQ

Finally I have just installed some curtains.

Most of my hand power tools have hoses connected to my vacuum cleaner. The vacuum has a cyclone attached to it.
Welding and grinding is done out side.

 

[wm460]

Excellent write up Eamonn and Peter.

Any build up in pipe work is a fire hazard and saw dust will spontaneously combust and self heat and it will cause a fire if it's left there for long periods. Especially during the summer months (even in the UK)

I have always wondered about this?
Just after I installed my duct work, I got a computer and then was reading about the dangers of this, Too late I had glued my set up together.

You cant get much drier than where I am, approx 12" rainfall a year and 12' (foot) evaporation a year. Dry enough for you.
I have been in my shed when it was 60°C.

 

[Burt25]

My workshop / garage is 36m2 (380 sq ft) and I have a lather, 14" bandsaw and pillar drill. I was looking at the Record Power CX2500 Chip Ciollector with fine dust filter fitted plus possibly a Record AC400 air cleaner. The lathe and bandsaw are approx 8' apart and I was going to place the Chip extractor between them with a shut off gate on each side of a Y junction to isolate each machine. The CX2500 is 550W and Im wondering if this will provide enough power? Any thoughts?

 

[wm460]

I originally had my dust collector in the shed till one day the way the sun was shining into the shed I could see the cloud of fine dust coming out of the bag on the DC.
I then bought a filter for it.

https://wynnenv.com/wp-content/uploads/HF-9-0400402-224x300.jpg

but eventually converted it to a cyclone.

 

[silver]

My workshop / garage is 36m2 (380 sq ft) and I have a lather, 14" bandsaw and pillar drill. I was looking at the Record Power CX2500 Chip Ciollector with fine dust filter fitted plus possibly a Record AC400 air cleaner. The lathe and bandsaw are approx 8' apart and I was going to place the Chip extractor between them with a shut off gate on each side of a Y junction to isolate each machine. The CX2500 is 550W and Im wondering if this will provide enough power? Any thoughts?

Yes, my thoughts are.

Read my earlier post....

1- the cx2500 is 850m3, in my opinion is not enough. (If I remember rightly it's only 75mm hose as well)

2- why buy an air cleaner.. It's the last thing on my list of to buy....

In my opinion you would be better buying then startite MDE-HCS UK1 and dropping the air cleaner.. You would be getting 3.5 times the air volume at 3000m3 than the cx2500 and moving the air AT SOURCE....

But if you could afford the bigger startrite then go for that..

 

[21William]

I read an article recently that spoke of the dangers of fire in fixed dust extractor systems. It said the ducting should be made of steel and installed outside the building away from combustible materials. Even so the pipe work should be cleared of trapped dust on a regular basis. Belt sanders and some bandsaws can quite easily produce sparks so its something to consider if going for fixed ducting.

 

[Burt25]

Yes, my thoughts are.

Read my earlier post....

1- the cx2500 is 850m3, in my opinion is not enough. (If I remember rightly it's only 75mm hose as well)

2- why buy an air cleaner.. It's the last thing on my list of to buy....

In my opinion you would be better buying then startite MDE-HCS UK1 and dropping the air cleaner.. You would be getting 3.5 times the air volume at 3000m3 than the cx2500 and moving the air AT SOURCE....

But if you could afford the bigger startrite then go for that..

Eammon, thanks for the advice- I looked at the startite but it's beyond my budget and it's big (I'm only looking to extract from 2 machines and I'm only an occasional woodturner. I took a look at the Axminster ct50rck which is within budget and is nice and compact but obviously I dont want to be wasting my money. Do I need a machine which can extract at 3000m3/hour?- if the consensus is that's the sort of air volume I need to be able to move then I would have to put the purchase off for now.- any thoughts on the Axminster machine? (Both it and the Record are 100mm )

 

[silver]

"Im only an ocaisional turner"

Does it really make a difference how often you turn, yes it only makes a difference on how long the dust equipment has to run for.

It doesn't really matter how often you do any turning the machines will still need the same amount of air to keep them de-dusted.

As for a specific make I can't say anything about the makes as most of them are produced out in China by the same manufacturer and badged up for the respective uk company.

All I can say is look at you budget and buy the biggest you can afford, if that's the CX 2500 then that's what you will have.

But Remember, How many times have you brought a new tool and then wanted something bigger? The same applies for this.

Have a look at the CX3000, similar size but more airflow.

 

[yorkshireman]

Have you looked at Camvac? Highly rated

 

[Burt25]

Have you looked at Camvac? Highly rated

Hi Keith,

Ive just been looking at Camvac and reading a few reviews - the twin motor unit looks like would fit my budget. I was avoiding Vacuum units due to the high noise, but Iam now thinking the Camvac with the outlet pipes fitted may overcome this and then possibly look at siting the unit outside in the near future. Will standard 4" soil pipe work with these for ducting?

Thanks

 

[21William]

A mate has a Camvac as does my wood turning club. Both of them have been fitted with home made labyrinth silencers which are very effective.

 

[Penpal]

A mate has a Camvac as does my wood turning club. Both of them have been fitted with home made labyrinth silencers which are very effective.

William I would be interested in the silencers any details?

Peter.

 

[21William]

William I would be interested in the silencers any details?

Peter.

Have a look here Peter.

Camvac silencer : Wood Turning - Lathes - UKworkshop.co.uk

 

[Burt25]

Ive decided to buy a wall mounted twin motor Camvac - Im looking on the Record Power website, but I cant see the hosing for the exhaust ports - can anyone help? Or can I buy generic stuff somewhere else online? Also - I assume the Vac doesn't come with any 100mm pipe?