Discussion: How much do you have to work a blank before you can say you made the pen?

[Phil Dart]

Since I started turning pens, the craft has moved on in leaps and bounds, and people are finding ever increasingly inventive ways of making the decorative part of the pen that is the responsibility of the person who bought the kit - ie, the blank.

Traditionally, pens used to be made from wooden blanks, but then acrylics gained popularity, laser cut blanks then became available, pre-tubed cast blanks, home casting, polymer clay blanks that are made more or less to the finished size of the pen, and so it goes on. One pen posted elsewhere on this forum recently, was made from a pre-bought spiralled rod which was then drilled out and tubed, then fitted to the pen after a little tube painting and end finishing of the rod. It was actually extremely inventive in my opinion, but others may equally think it was a bit of a cheat.

So, on the one hand, someone plants a tree, nurtures it to maturity (yes, he's a very old pen turner) fells the tree, planks it, seasons the wood, converts it to pen blanks and makes a pen. On the other hand, someone buys a pre-tubed blank that is already at finished size, applies a bit of CA to shine it up and presses the pen together.

My question is just as the title says - how much do you have to work a blank before you can say you made the pen? There are no right or wrong answers here, because at the end of the day each person gains from their hobby what they want to gain, and all approaches are equally valid, but I thought it would be interesting to hear everyone's views.

 

[Cumbrian Craig]

Now that is a question Phil. I'm still relatively new to pens/turning. I would not use a ready to go blank, because I get my enjoyment from the selecting, cutting, drilling , gluing and of course the turning. For me, simply putting a pen together wouldn't be that much fun.

That said, If someone can create a good looking and functional pen, simply by assembling the parts then fair play to them. As a hobbyist, you do what gives you the most satisfaction for the time and effort. (might be different for people who make a living from it).

Regards

Craig

 

[Vic Perrin]

Difficult question to answer Phil. Some of these so called self assembly kits are stunning. It's down to the individual I suppose.

Me well I would go for Hand Crafted rather than Hand Assembled

 

[fortress]

I'd like to think that I Have made the pen when I have cut, drilled, tubed and trimmed the wood blank, also segmented the blank, and when I have cast my own resin blanks with colour, stamps, decals and glitter. I made that..

 

[Morse]

I will do what best suits the person I'm giving the pen to.
I prefer to "theme" the pen to the person. If the person is into fly fishing, the I will use a fly fishing kit.
Likewise if their into shooting the a lock and load kit.
If I can find a nicely grained timber then yes there is just as much enjoyment from that.
There are many choices and tastes, which is good.

"The beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

Dave

 

[silver]

Well a great question.

1. Building an airfix model is "hand building and making a model"
2. Building a model from drawings in whatever materials you prefer is "hand building and making a model"

So in 1 above all because the parts came ready moulded and only needed painting is that model making?

it's much the same as the architect Phil, bringing all the parts together and getting the finished piece. After all they didn't make all the parts but get all the recognition for it.

In reality if you build the item up then you have technically made it, albeit from purchased parts.

I remember removing alternators from cars, strip them down and rebuild them, all the mechanic (technician) does now is replace it. So it's changing all the time.

I'm sure that there is a workforce of people in Parker /cross HQ that also say they hand build pens..

 

[johnny5]

It was me that made the spiralled Acrylic pen , i made this because whilst surfing ebay i saw this rod and thought i can make a pen out of that.
As far as i am aware no-one else had the same idea to do this using materials available.
previously i won the pen of the week using a hand carved Rhino i bought in a car boot sale. I saw it and thought i could make a pen out of that & i Did
I enjoy making pens and have made totally unique pens using 300 million year old Petosky Stone fossil , Damascus steel and even Bone for a surgeon.
Wood , Acrylic,Metal , Antler, tru-stone even make my own blanks.
I enjoy reclaiming any material and making them into a functional object and will continue to do so .
I did not deceive anyone with my description of the spiral pen, others assumed i made the barley twist myself (wish i could)
Like someone said earlier, to buy a pre made polymer clay pen and just add the kit does not constitute making the pen, i simply used my imagination to create using a different pen using what is available .

 

[Chriscb]

A question of semantics really - pen building by hand is a pen hand built (just as the model analogy above). Clearly there are degrees of complexity between the various techniques and methods used to build pens but to the general public what we achieve in our workshops by spinning wood really fast and creating a bowl, vase pen et al. is pretty stunning. Personally I take my hat off to the Welshman - great vision and blue sky thinking!

Chriscb

 

[Gregory Hardy]

I have really devoted the last fourteen months to learning techniques to build "kitless" pens. I will end up making about two hundred, fifty kit pens between now and December 1st, but that's not where my heart is. I mention this only as a preface to my answer to Phil's question.

When I am "making a pen" today, I am buying long pieces of stock, boring and turning, cutting threads, and doing it all from an original design by me. I am buying sheet metal which I cut, form, solder and embellish for the accent hardware. I think I am "making a pen." Disclosure: I do not make the nib or housing. I think I am "still making a pen."

That thought carried forward, if you are buying a few more parts than me, and if those parts have been conveniently organized in the form of a "kit," you are still going through basically the same process. The creativity, the forethought, the planning, and all of the physical steps. You are "making a pen" too.

Caveat- if you buy a kit and buy a pre-turned, prefinished blank, maybe you should say you "assemble" a pen, not "make" it. Everyone else, though - you guys are "makers." Just my two cents. (Of course, my two cents are only worth 1.54 cents there today, so you can ignore me!)

 

[nimrod]

I make pens from the normal materials wood, corian, acrylic I cut the blanks to size if necessary stabilise spalted blanks, drill, glue and turn them on a mandrel but I don't always turn them on a wood turning lathe I will sometimes turn them on my metal turning lathe using carbide tipped tools set up in the tool post and on auto feed, I finish them using abrasives, polishes etc and assemble them. I am cheating using a metal lathe set up after all I am still turning the pen and I get a great deal of satisfaction using both methods they are hand made and I am using skills I have learnt in working in engineering. I would be interested in members opinions.

Robin

 

[JerseyBill]

In my humble opinion Johnny did no wrong. He did not set out to deceive anyone as far as I can see. He purchased a material and added thought, effort, skill and time to produce a pen to satisfy a specific request. All of the items we make require different proportions of these elements and attract different levels of appreciation - and that's as it should be. If you don't like the material used, or the item produced, so be it - but it doesn't make it wrong.

 

[Penpal]

Made is made,seeing a pen is a skill,observing a pen is personal and mostly subjective. To read into comments without checking with the author can lead to discussion. Phil has asked on this post with a pen to be isolated I believe unneccesarily. It is not required that we make a blank,certainly should never be a requirement that we make a kit from scratch.

The question asked how much do you have to work a blank before you can say you made the pen?

For me I vary the amount of work and time to suit the pen I am making,some take me some hours to fashion using a variety of tools and methods,also materials. I tend to discard cracked,chipped blanks seeking the highest quality and vision of grain in timber. I make cast pens from poured pen blanks from time to time (have a box full of them).

On the forum when a pen is presented for viewing that is what I do,viewing and making comments. It is not my business how a blank was obtained or the pen made rather the presentation I see on the finished submission.

I do believe pen of the week is a difficult choice for anyone to make comparing infinitely different pens one against another. Recent and present choice of pen of the week of Johnnys is impressive and worthy. I do enjoy the narrative,in the twisted pen it was interesting to learn after the event that such a blank was offered on the net, full marks for seeing it ,buying it and using it.

As the person who has commented more on the forum than anyone else it is obvious to me that my use of words and my expressions are not the same as anyone elses,sometimes the language emphasis on different words seems to be interpreted strangely to me.

Altogether I will continue to do my best with my pens assuming you do the best with yours.

Kind regards Peter.

 

[Dalboy]

This is a question I sometimes ask myself Phil as I make all my pens from kits (OK when I do make some) and only turn the barrels am I really hand making them.

But then the barrel does need to be a pleasing shape and that is down to me and also the fit to the components also need to be a good match to the size of the components and again that is down to my skill or lack of it.

So to a certain extent then yes it is hand made. like most things it depends on who you ask. Another pen turner will say yes but a passer-by may have a different view as well as other turners who do not make them.

With kitless pens the answer is easy it is YES it is hand made.

 

[21William]

If it’s kitless then it’s hand made. If not then it’s partly hand made.

This a type of thing comes up on engineering forums as well: If it’s made on a CNC machine did you make it? My answer is NO, you may have designed and drawn it on a computer but you didn’t make it, the machine did!

And don’t get me started on people that “build” their own computers. Plugging stuff in sockets and putting in a few screws hardly constitutes building. Assemble is the correct term but it doesn’t sound so impressive ...

 

[AllenN]

I guess it all comes down to personal preference. I feel that a scratch built custom pen is about pure as hand made can get but that still leaves the question of where one sources the blank and of course the nib and converter are almost always bought in ( I guess eye droppers being the exception) I prefer to use the description to explain just what has been involved. If all the parts are ready made and all one does is put them together and polish this seems to me closer to assembly than hand making. Nothing wrong with that in its self but not really what I want to do.
When one is asked to make a pen from some object or to some theme that rather sets the limits and again part of the artistry is deciding what to do ones self and what to buy in or farm out. For me it remains important to state what I have done and what not. I have therefore described pens by reference to who made the blank when it is artisan made but not when it is simply bought in without reference to the maker.

 

[Dalboy]

The thing that I did not mention is for example when I cast my meagre attempts at casting as well as turn the blank for a pen that could be classed as hand made.

 

[Penpal]

Advance the forum ,send in your pens,share the promise of a bright tomorrow,have your say but above all pics,conversation and pens rule.

Peter.

 

[Penpal]

Advance the forum ,send in your pens,share the promise of a bright tomorrow,have your say but above all pics,conversation and pens rule.72 members switched on so far today,love bowls,bird feeders and shared stories,adventures,contributions. Like voting its not going to happen without you.All the best to the troubled members facing calamity around THE WORLD.

KInd regards .

Peter.

 

[flexi]

Great and interesting, thought provoking topic.... sometimes you don't always see or appreciate the work that can or does go into a blank, different people with different views. I have done a few bullet pens and drilled the bullets out, resized the cases and fitted kits and had customers say just that " yeah, but you didn't make it, you just assembled it" cheers! When I sell a pre cast tubed blank, I always say " Yes I turned, polished and fitted it, but the blank was made by xxxxx. I take my hat off to the kitless makers and skilled blank makers, but always try to be honest with my description of both ME and my pens

 

[sammy]

In my humble opinion. If some the material, at least the blank, used to make the pen are modified by a person with hand held and guided cutting tools, then it is making. However, if a pile of just purchased parts are together then that must be assembly.
Is the answer to the question laughing at us from title of the forum?
George
G