DIY Friction polish

[Steve68]

Good day ladies and gents. I hope you all had a good Christmas and I wish you all the best for '19.

DIY friction polish....hmmm.
Decided I'd try and make my own so I trawled the trusty youtube and found exactly what I needed.
Now I'm not one to take the word of the first person I see / watch / listen to etc, so I watched many different err..."youtubers??" but they basically all said the same thing. Boiled linseed oil, meths and shellac in equal quantities. Now, is it just me or is it impossible to buy Zinsser shellac in the UK? I'm a decorator by trade and I use lots of Zinsser's products but everywhere I try to find it the answer is always the same. NO!
So I visited a local, long standing and well known hardware store that has a large tool section which sells lathes, chisels, pen kits etc as well as all manner of power and hand tools. Basically they're supposed to know their stuff. The old boy who is their specialist in woodworking told me I needed Chestnut cellulose sanding sealer. I told him I wanted Shellac and why but he kept telling me I needed the Chestnut. After quite a long discussion and much frustration on my part I wandered off and found some blonde shellac French polish. Hoping this would do the trick I purchased it along with the meths and oil and retired to the shed to mix up my brew.
I mixed equal parts, turned a small bowl, sanded, sealed and applied my new polish........

The bowl had more sheen after being sanded and sealed than after polishing.

I mixed another small batch making sure my measurements were accurate, turned the old finish off the bowl, sanded, sealed and tried again.......rubbish.

So....has anyone else tried their own polish? Is the French polish I used the problem? The results on youtube were quite spectacular, mine were plain awful.
And where can I find Zinsser shellac????

Cheers,
Steve.

 

[monophoto]

Steve

I've noted that just about every woodturning YouTube video that I've seen from the UK talks about cellulose (lacquer) sanding sealer rather than shellac sanding sealer. Can't understand that - must be a consequence of too much warm beer, or perhaps driving on the wrong side of the road.

Seriously, cellulose sanding sealer seems to be a cultural fixation in the UK, while here in the colonies, we prefer shellac. Have no idea why that is.

But to the point - there are two formulas for friction polish. One calls for equal quantities of oil (typically boiled linseed oil), shellac, and shellac thinner (the stuff we call denatured alcohol, and that the Brits call methylated spirits). But the other formula involves equal quantities of oil, a brushing lacquer, and lacquer thinner. If you can't easily find shellac, you might try the lacquer version.

My experience is that it takes many applications to build a serious, permanent gloss. The piece will look nice with only a couple of applications, but after a few days of curing, it will lose some of that lustre. It will still look nice, and will have the tactile feel of wood (rather than a plasticky feel of a varnish). You can apply as many coats as you wish, and the finish does build as additional coats are added.

Frankly, I prefer the lacquer version - I think it is harder when cured, and isn't subject to damage from occasional encounters with alcohol (for example, if you use a pen to stir a cocktail). I make it with pure Tung oil rather than boiled linseed oil.

 

[Steve68]

Driving on the wrong side of the road? So that's what I've been doing wrong?

I've seen a few video's with Tung oil being used on it's own as a finish. I'm not after a tacky gloss look, I can get that by brushing on some clear resin and sanding / polishing. But I like to see a nice shine on some woods. I bought some Bolivian rosewood blanks from Phil and they finish beautifully with just my cheap hard wax friction sticks. If I could find a good recipe for friction polish I'd use it. So far my efforts are not producing the look I'm after.

Do you think the French polish shellac I'm using could be the problem?

 

[Neil Lawton]

In effect you have bought a finished french polish and added to it. Blonde shellac makes a brown polish, super blonde makes a clear one. Just google shellac flakes as they are what you need, there are loads of UK suppliers.

 

[Phil Dart]

What Neil said. Shellac flakes are the staple of those trades that still make their own varnishes and polishes - like violin restorers for instance For best results though, you do still need to apply a sealer before the polish. For longevity of finish on a pen though, in my [well known, arrogant and contentious] opinion, friction polish is not up there at the top of the list I'm afraid.

 

[Penpal]

As you reap you sow,what do you want to remember of the timber you chose in the first place. Horses for courses.

Peter.

 

[wm460]

In effect you have bought a finished french polish and added to it. Blonde shellac makes a brown polish, super blonde makes a clear one. Just google shellac flakes as they are what you need, there are loads of UK suppliers.

Reading this thread with interest due to my thread of What Finish.
During the week I have been thing of shellac.
I found this available in Australia.

How long does shellac last once it is mixed?
How much would I need on a bowl 12" wide and 4" deep?


Dewaxed Super Blonde Shellac 250 grams
High quality imported de-waxed Super Bleached Blonde Shellac

250 grams of Shellac will make up to 1 litre of rich laquer.

Instructions:

Add 250 grams of Shellac to 3/4 of a litre of methylated spirits and stir, the shellac will dissolve in about 2 hours (stir / shake frequently).

Top up Shellac mixture with 1/4 of a litre of methylated spirits.
$22.68

 

[Steve68]

Mark, It was your thread that got me thinking about my little failed experiment Hence this thread.

Whenever I watch a youtube video the turner always manages to get a nice sheen on their work. I seem to manage OK with pens but as soon as I try something larger I get an "OK" finish but not quite what I'm looking for.

I'm going back to the tube and see if I can find more details about shellac flakes. If I find anything relevant I'll post the link

 

[fortress]

You made some interesting points monophone about finishes, We drive on the left and that’s right for us over here, please tell us your name, or is that omission deliberate? Lol.

 

[bigbob]

I like to experiment with finishes too and recently made some EEE(U-Beaut products EEE ultra shine) this is very expensive in the UK so like you looked for a utube video and found the ingredients. I use Phil's method to finish my pens most times but wanted something a bit more shiny so use the EEE after the sand sealer goes on and before the Melamine this does indeed make the pen more shiny. Phil is right about friction polish not lasting long and on the occasion that I use friction polish I always put a couple of coats of polish which has microcrystalline wax in (which at the moment is Hampshire sheen) as this does prolong the finish. EEE cannot be the final finish either it needs to be sealed with something else otherwise it will go dull overnight. I believe the shellac you require is Zinsser Bulls eye clear you can get this from Amazon in the UK link below:-

Amazon.co.uk: shellac: DIY & Tools

Link to the video on how to make EEE (Tripolli named after very fine earth found in Libya)

Wood Abrasive Paste with Tripoli - YouTube

 

[21William]

I got the impression that the only folks that bothered with antique finishes that included shellac were furniture restorers. Modern finishes are so much quicker to use and seem to have a much better shelf life. I stand to be corrected but aren’t modern finishes also more durable than the stuff used in the 1850’s?

 

[Steve68]

I got the impression that the only folks that bothered with antique finishes that included shellac were furniture restorers. Modern finishes are so much quicker to use and seem to have a much better shelf life. I stand to be corrected but aren’t modern finishes also more durable than the stuff used in the 1850’s?

OK, OK, I'm an old fart

I don't always want a high gloss shine but has anyone seen the guy turn and polish the Padouk bowl? I think the shine he got on that piece really suited the colour of the wood, and it looked stunning.

Link.....

Padouk Bowl with High Gloss Shellac Finish - French Polish - Woodturning // How-To - YouTube

 

[wm460]

Very impressive finish.
Pity he couldn't speak English so I could understand him.

 

[Penpal]

I got the impression that the only folks that bothered with antique finishes that included shellac were furniture restorers. Modern finishes are so much quicker to use and seem to have a much better shelf life. I stand to be corrected but aren’t modern finishes also more durable than the stuff used in the 1850’s?

No Museum kept old furniture holds up well from the old recipes IMHO. Years ago I bought a couple of double boilers from a lady who used them for hair removal using wax. With full temperature control, great to use for home brews.

I have a friend who makes document boxes finished with 27 coats of French Polish,they sell from 10.000US to twenty Five Thousand US. His Bud vases 27 coats of French Polish. The finish defies description.

Peter.

 

[21William]

French polish does look very nice but it’s not durable, particularly for things like tables. 30 seconds with a hot cup will prove that. French polishers of old would be very envious of the finish we can get in a few minutes that would have taken them a week using FP.

 

[AllenN]

If you still want shellac I think that Workshop Heaven here in the UK stock it. They list blonde, garnet and button shellac. Not sure I would use it on pens as others have said because it does not stand up to handling very well.