!*@^*)@ etsy

[angelo49]

OK, I just need to get this off my chest.
ETSY
I've been making pens as a hobby for about 12 years and for a while giving most of them away.
Then etsy comes along. This was a site where you could sell your handcrafted items.
Rules were that they had to be hand made by you.
In 2008 I set up an etsy shop and it really never was that great.
Up untill now I only have 350 sales. Thats 7 years. And I think my prices are reasonable, if not cheap.
The rules have changed, anything goes now. Do a search for handmade pens and one of the first
items that comes up is handmade engraved pens. This is a guy that buys 'overseas' already made pens for 2 bucks apiece and puts your name on them for around $13.
Since he did the engraving it's now a hand made item. He's on etsy for 2 years and has over 1200 sales. This guy never saw a f---kin' lathe or blank of wood in his life!!
Probably 15% of etsy vendors make their items, everything else is cheap crap that gets re-sold.
I don't do any face bookin', tweetin' or my spacin' so I wouldn't even now how to start with my own website. Hell, I had an android ''touchy'' phone for about 2 weeks and went back to my flip phone.
''I was being followed.'' But that's just me.
I have 70 pens on etsy now and most of them been listed for 2 or 3 years.
Whad-a-ya Think
Handmade Pens and More by Penright by penright on Etsy

 

[fingwe]

I'm afraid that's the way with most websites. They want to make more money, and the easiest way to do that is open up their market. I think that, unless you have something really fantastic which sells itself, you really need to just see etsy as a selling platform, and use other methods (usually social media) to drum up trade and send visitors to your etsy shop.

 

[Penpal]

I think your pens are great cheap as and deserve more attention.

Peter.

 

[fingwe]

I've just taken a look at your etsy site. There's nothing wrong with your pens. I'd say your prices are a little cheap for what you're selling. Remember, a lot of etsy shoppers are prepared to pay extra for a handmade item and may discount something which they view as 'cheap'.

My other thought is that Etsy buyers are mostly women and you have a lot of male oriented pens on there.

Other than that, I'm afraid I can't offer any advice, other than what I said before - Etsy isn't a 'upload and leave' type of site. You have to draw your own customers to make it a success.

 

[Bob Ellis]

As Melanie has said, you are underselling your pens. Putting them on at a cheap price undervalues the craftsmanship that has gone into them. I have no idea whether increasing your prices will increase your sales, but from my own experience of selling my pens through a display in my local museum, it is usually the most expensive items that sell first. People who buy craftsman-made pens usually value quality and are willing to pay for it.

 

[Pierre---]

You say you're selling one pen a week for seven years. Most of the sellers on the forum would dream to have so good results!

But if you want to do more, as it has been said, underpricing is no good. For other sellers who try to live from turning neither, by the way.

Another point : maybe you should consider giving more attention to your description and keywords. They have to be obvious and used by prospective costumers: people are asking what they want to the Etsy search engine through very few words which you have to use in your description. I checked your keywords for one pen, and I read : accessoire, student, gift, office, graduation, monet style twist, segmented gold, yellowheart wenge. I doubt anybody who wants a handmade wooden pen will ask these words to a search engine. And I don't see "wooden pen" or "handmade pen" amongst your keywords. Working on search engine optimization is one key I suppose.

Hope it helps.

 

[wm460]

I agree with your pen pens seem too cheap.
Often wondered about etsy, now I have an answer, you have put me off of it.

 

[Twin Oaks]

I feel your pain. I do custom hand tooled leatherwork for a hobby.
I've had people ask me to make them something & when I give them a price
they balk at it. I had one guy ask me to make him a custom made portfolio
with lots of tooling & carving on it.
I know from experience it takes a minimum of 300 hours of my time to make such an article.
I price them accordingly.

He tells me he can buy one for X amount of money.
I told him to buy it & walked away.

Most people do not equate quality with price.
They want you to give it away & not pay for your labor & skills.

 

[yorkshireman]

I think you're spot on there Herb, people seem to think that if it's your hobby you shouldn't make money out of it. I will get a good response from someone when I show them a pen but as soon as I mention £25-£30 the conversation ends. I've even had some folk wanting to know how much I'm making out of it.

 

[fingwe]

Yes, I think that's one of the problems that we all face. I've done various crafts over the years, and it's something that you hear time and time again, especially at craft fairs. People expect you to sell the items for the cost of the materials, and that's it. They don't see why they should pay for your time if it's a hobby. That's why I'm quite clear that I do this as a business - and price my pens accordingly. Penmaking isn't my hobby, if I didn't make money selling pens I probably wouldn't be doing it. Fortunately most of my customers are great and don't have a problem paying for my time (a lot of them are professional calligraphers and so face the same issues themselves).

I think that's one of the problems with pricing your stuff low; by doing that you're basically telling the customer that it's a hobby and you're not really looking to be fully reimbursed for your time. That sets the expectation in their minds that your item may not be professionally made (you're just a hobbyist after all), and why should they pay for your time at all?

I know it's not right, but it's the way it is, I'm afraid.

 

[21William]

There are some good points made. Out of interest, how long does it take to make a pen intended for sale on somewhere like Etsy and how much would you like to be laid per hour?

 

[fingwe]

Well, I'm not going to say how much I charge per hour...but if you run it purely as a business, then you have to think about all your overheads - machinery costs/upkeep/replacement, electricity, insurance, materials and consumables, accountancy fees, website/etsy fees, etc, etc before you even start thinking about paying yourself a wage. Plus also remember that, if you're running a proper business, the wage you pay yourself should be different to the profit that goes back into the business. Also don't forget that you don't get paid holidays or sick days if you work for yourself.

So, let's say that you want to earn an average-ish wage of £24,000 a year - that's £500 a week, worked over 48 weeks (lets say you have 4 weeks holiday/sick a year), after all your expenses have been taken out. £100 a day. How many pens can your realistically make in a day? 5? 10? And don't forget that you need to include time to make them, photograph them, list them on etsy, answer numerous emails, do your accounts, order new stock, pack the pens up when they sell, take them to the post office, answer more emails, etc. Now how many pens can you make in a day? Realistically, day in, day out? I don't know that answer to that, because I don't really make the type of pens that you're talking about, but I do know that doing all of the other stuff takes me more time than making the actual pens :-( So, let's say you can make 5 pens a day (25/week, 1200/year). You need to price them at £20 each PLUS the cost of the materials (lets say £8), PLUS the cost of all your expenses for the year divided by how may pens you make a year (so lets say your expenses per year average £2400, that would be £2 per pen). So, we're up to £30 for a pen by now. And then there's profit....how much profit do you want to make to be able to grow your business, invest in better/new machinery, market your items, etc? It's not an area I'm that familiar with, but Walter has written a fair bit about it, I think.

And then you have to think....is £24,000 a year enough to make it all worthwhile? You have all of the hassle and uncertainty of running a business for a fairly average wage. Is that enough? How many business owners do you know who would be happy earning £24,000 a year?

Second question is, even if £24,000 is enough for you....can you actually sell 1200 pens a year? If you can only realistically sell 600 a year, then you're going to have to double the amount you make on each one just to reach your £24,000 goal, or do something else in addition.

And finally I will say that I certainly don't practise what I preach - it's almost impossible to in the early days of starting a business.

 

[Bill Mooney]

I ran a business for 21 years & you are near enough spot on Melanie.

 

[Dalboy]

Blimey I have just looked at your Etsy site and i thought that at one time I was selling mine cheap but looking at yours they are well below what they are worth as there are some fantastic looking pens on there. I think you should increase the prices, you may as well sell one a week at a higher price.

 

[DJB Penmaker]

You need to at least double your prices from what i can see. If you are undervaluing your own work then so will your customers.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[fingwe]

I would also suggest that anyone wanting to sell on etsy, or any other online marketplace, targets a particular market. Think of different groups of people you can target, and then think of how you might make a pen specifically for them. Then specialise and target your marketing. Etsy attracts mostly women....so think of things women might be interested in. Lots of women like cats....maybe a shop full of pens with pics of cats on them. Lots of brides shop on etsy for unique wedding items, so maybe make pens which they can give as gifts to their bridesmaids and groomsmen (especially if you can personalise).

Once you have identified your niche, work out what social network people with these interests tend to visit most - is there a strong instagram presence, Facebook groups, etc. The good thing with pens is that they are easy and cheap to post, so you may find your main market is overseas, don't let this put you off. If you have a good quality, unique product that you have marketed correctly people will pay.

It may take a few tries to find the right niche that you can market to, but once you have, it will be much easier to sell to.

*Disclaimer* My ideas above may be crap....they're just to illustrate a point. I take no responsibility if you fail to make millions selling cat pens (though if you do make millions, I want a cut)

 

[wm460]

Well, I'm not going to say how much I charge per hour...but if you run it purely as a business, then you have to think about all your overheads - machinery costs/upkeep/replacement, electricity, insurance, materials and consumables, accountancy fees, website/etsy fees, etc, etc before you even start thinking about paying yourself a wage. Plus also remember that, if you're running a proper business, the wage you pay yourself should be different to the profit that goes back into the business. Also don't forget that you don't get paid holidays or sick days if you work for yourself.

So, let's say that you want to earn an average-ish wage of £24,000 a year - that's £500 a week, worked over 48 weeks (lets say you have 4 weeks holiday/sick a year), after all your expenses have been taken out. £100 a day. How many pens can your realistically make in a day? 5? 10? And don't forget that you need to include time to make them, photograph them, list them on etsy, answer numerous emails, do your accounts, order new stock, pack the pens up when they sell, take them to the post office, answer more emails, etc. Now how many pens can you make in a day? Realistically, day in, day out? I don't know that answer to that, because I don't really make the type of pens that you're talking about, but I do know that doing all of the other stuff takes me more time than making the actual pens :-( So, let's say you can make 5 pens a day (25/week, 1200/year). You need to price them at £20 each PLUS the cost of the materials (lets say £8), PLUS the cost of all your expenses for the year divided by how may pens you make a year (so lets say your expenses per year average £2400, that would be £2 per pen). So, we're up to £30 for a pen by now. And then there's profit....how much profit do you want to make to be able to grow your business, invest in better/new machinery, market your items, etc? It's not an area I'm that familiar with, but Walter has written a fair bit about it, I think.

And then you have to think....is £24,000 a year enough to make it all worthwhile? You have all of the hassle and uncertainty of running a business for a fairly average wage. Is that enough? How many business owners do you know who would be happy earning £24,000 a year?

Second question is, even if £24,000 is enough for you....can you actually sell 1200 pens a year? If you can only realistically sell 600 a year, then you're going to have to double the amount you make on each one just to reach your £24,000 goal, or do something else in addition.

And finally I will say that I certainly don't practise what I preach - it's almost impossible to in the early days of starting a business.

Jeez Melanie, you just put me off of going full time pen turning.

 

[Graham_C]

Melanie, you have covered all the salient points there. As a business advisor, I found that most people who start a business miss many of the things you covered. Really good advice for anyone thinking about selling pens for a living

Perhaps you should be a consultant, it probably pays better

 

[Penpal]

One of the best pieces of advice I was given in business in partnership with my wife was to surrender to her the tasks I loved most, otherwise you tend to dwell in a cocoon while the other vital tasks suffer. Anyway it worked for us. It was intensive living above the Photo Studio with five teenagers and one small child. Heaps of fun but serious stuff as well.

Peter.

 

[Walter]

So, let's say that you want to earn an average-ish wage of £24,000 a year - that's £500 a week, worked over 48 weeks (lets say you have 4 weeks holiday/sick a year), after all your expenses have been taken out. £100 a day. How many pens can your realistically make in a day? 5? 10? And don't forget that you need to include time to make them, photograph them, list them on etsy, answer numerous emails, do your accounts, order new stock, pack the pens up when they sell, take them to the post office, answer more emails, etc. Now how many pens can you make in a day? Realistically, day in, day out? I don't know that answer to that, because I don't really make the type of pens that you're talking about, but I do know that doing all of the other stuff takes me more time than making the actual pens :-( So, let's say you can make 5 pens a day (25/week, 1200/year). You need to price them at £20 each PLUS the cost of the materials (lets say £8), PLUS the cost of all your expenses for the year divided by how may pens you make a year (so lets say your expenses per year average £2400, that would be £2 per pen). So, we're up to £30 for a pen by now. And then there's profit....how much profit do you want to make to be able to grow your business, invest in better/new machinery, market your items, etc? It's not an area I'm that familiar with, but Walter has written a fair bit about it, I think.

I have indeed written a fair bit about it and quoted good write ups by others too, especially one by Matthew Davis (see link below).

I am sure people are sick of reading me banging on about pricing and rubbishing the nonsensical "X times materials cost" formulae that seem so popular, but so few people seem to have any idea how to run a business. What you have written Melanie is a good summary of the many factors that need to be taken into consideration.

Matthew Davis's Article - How To Price Your Work