Glueing tubes into blanks .... what am I missing?

[Natator]

Hi guys

I've just started turning pens and am delighted with the few I've completed, all be they simple ones. I've gone and ruined a few blanks, both wood and acrylic, as a part of my learning process. All well and good.

However, I can't for the life of me get the brass tubes to stick in the flipping blanks (wood or acrylic). All 6 I had ready today spun loose. I've tried all soprts of things but to no avail. So far I've tried the following ...

Different glues. I've tried CA (standard superglue), Gorilla, a CA glue that says it's more flexible and another strong/flexible one.

I've given them far longer to cure than the minimum.

I've been roughing up the tubes, from mild to sending them down to the docks, dressed in a tutu and shouting "hello sailor" to anyone that passes!

I'm using a pen mill.

I'm being extremely gentle when first starting on the blank, to avoid catches etc.

Drilling out using a chuck in the lathe, new drill bits (holes are nice and clean). Even bought a bit from the pen kit supplier in case there was something special about that.

Pen tubes are in theory 10mm, in practice closer to 9.75 .... tubes slide in easily, small gap if anything. However, 9.5mm bit and they won't fit.

Have tightend up on the mandrel, probably overly so at times.

Have tried with traditional and carbides - neither is better/worse.

Have tried making tubes damp so glue expands a little.

When the tubes come lose (sometimes using the pen mill but more often when turning) it appears the glue has adhered well to the tubes.

Help and advice needed please. I'm running out of ideas and can't for the life of me work out what I'm doing wrong, as I'm sure this shouldn't be this hard. It's spoiling the fun as it's too frustrating to glue up 10 tubes/blanks and only get one, maybe two, that don't come lose.

 

[Penpal]

Using sandpaper I rough the brass around I figure if I go lengthways least resistance later.

I use Gorilla Glue (the one that expands) liberally in the tube and on the brass (messy but use gloves). Always rubber band end for end. Use a slice of potato in the entry end wiping it clean before glueing.

Don,t like using a pen mill as such ,use a face plate device.

try to be gentle going from square initially using just enough tightness on the mandrel.

Always ream inside the brass carefully after gluing and ream lightly the lip of the brass either end.

When turning I turn from each end,never have a blank failure.

Welcome to the forum, have success.

Peter.

 

[Natator]

Using sandpaper I rough the brass around I figure if I go lengthways least resistance later.

I've been going around the tube, I'll try lengthways.

Don,t like using a pen mill as such ,use a face plate device.

Very nice setup. A future project for me :)

try to be gentle going from square initially using just enough tightness on the mandrel.

Yup, been trying and am adept at failing at that it seems.

Always ream inside the brass carefully after gluing and ream lightly the lip of the brass either end.

Never thought of this, I'll definitely try it.

When turning I turn from each end,never have a blank failure.

Peter.

Ohhh, I'll give that a try as well. I've been turning evenly, well sort of, down the whole length.

Is it normal for the tubes to be a really lose fit prior to gluing?

Thanks for the tips there Peter, lots there I can use to hopefully get this working :)

 

[Natator]

Using sandpaper I rough the brass around I figure if I go lengthways least resistance later.

Oops, misread. Seems I have this one right :)

 

[yorkshireman]

I always use gorilla glue Simon as it expands to fill the gap between blank and tube, never have a problem.

 

[Bucks]

Welcome to the forum Simon, not sure where your going wrong! when using the gorilla glue how long do you leave the glue to dry before working on the blank? I always leave the blanks that I glue with goriilla glue overnight. Also I always round the corners of the blanks on the sander to give a head start on the turning, it also imposes less stress on the glue joint.

 

[flexi]

Hi, I use a set of calipers to measure the tube and match to the best drill bit( never trust the manufacturer recommended size). I don't rough the tube but do use Gorilla PU.....I insert into the blank on the end of a mastic tube nozzel, with a twisting motion to ensure even coverage..... generally leave overnight, just cos I always try to work in advance.....not had a failure in a looong time.
Watch out next week

 

[fortress]

Hello and welcome Simon, I cannot add anything to what's already been said, but the tubes ideally should be a snug fit not too loose. I hope it will all come together for you very soon, keep on enjoying the ride.

 

[Vic Perrin]

I always rough the tubes first and seal the ends of the tubes with dental wax. On acrylic I use a standard CA and take the edges off the blank on a sander prior to turning. I use these blanks only a few mins after glueing up. Over the past 10 years or so I have had very very few failures.

On wooden blanks I used Gorrilla Glue and always moisten the blank before glueing and seal the ends of the tube with wax and rough the surface of the tube up a little. I leave these overnight before turning and again only very very few failures.

Both wooden and acrylic blanks are squared in a disc sander prior to turning as I am not keen on the pen mill.

I always size my tubes in a drill gauge and select the tightest corresponding drill possible as sometimes the manufactures given drill sizes can differ a little.

All my drilling is done on the lathe.

 

[Bucks]

I also use a drill gauges (both metric & imperial) to match the blank with a drill bit that’s the best fit.

 

[Natator]

I always use gorilla glue Simon as it expands to fill the gap between blank and tube, never have a problem.

That's why I got some, everyone seems to love it.

I've just glued up some blanks, using more glue that I had been, and tips from above. I've leave for at least the suggested 24 hours and have at 'em!

Thanks :)

 

[Natator]

I also use a drill gauges (both metric & imperial) to match the blank with a drill bit that’s the best fit.

Hmmmm, good point. I only have metric drill bits and I think the fit is far too lose. Wonder if I can get a better fit with imperial bits.

Thanks :)

 

[Natator]

Hello and welcome Simon, I cannot add anything to what's already been said, but the tubes ideally should be a snug fit not too loose. I hope it will all come together for you very soon, keep on enjoying the ride.

Definitely going to persist ..... I can see this pen turning thing being rather addictive. I admit, I love the few successes I've had :)

 

[Bammer]

Get yourself a set of drill gauges, cheap as chips on e-bay. Get metric and imperial.

If the tube is a tight fit you have use a round file to get rid of the drill bit marks till it does fit.

Don't use CA, use the Gorilla polyurethane glue. It expands and fill the gap between tube and blank.

Throw the barrel trimmer away, they are the devils work. Use a bench sander, transfer punches and a magnetic V block, been doing this for years before it became so popular.

Start slow till you get the blank round, not so much stress and pressure on the glue, then whack it up to turning speed.

PS. 2 part epoxy for acrylic blanks.

 

[Natator]

I always rough the tubes first and seal the ends of the tubes with dental wax. On acrylic I use a standard CA and take the edges off the blank on a sander prior to turning. I use these blanks only a few mins after glueing up. Over the past 10 years or so I have had very very few failures.

On wooden blanks I used Gorrilla Glue and always moisten the blank before glueing and seal the ends of the tube with wax and rough the surface of the tube up a little. I leave these overnight before turning and again only very very few failures.

Both wooden and acrylic blanks are squared in a disc sander prior to turning as I am not keen on the pen mill.

I always size my tubes in a drill gauge and select the tightest corresponding drill possible as sometimes the manufactures given drill sizes can differ a little.

All my drilling is done on the lathe.

Definitely need to look into better fit for the holes :) I misunderstood the bit about sealing the tubes with potato or wax ..... but looking at the foamy mess from glueing a couple of hours ago I now get it

I can't use the ones I've just glued up tomorrow but I have a couple of acrylic blanks I've not destroyed so I'll try them with CA, and the tips above :)

Thanks muchly :)

 

[Natator]

Get yourself a set of drill gauges, cheap as chips on e-bay. Get metric and imperial.

If the tube is a tight fit you have use a round file to get rid of the drill bit marks till it does fit.

Don't use CA, use the Gorilla polyurethane glue. It expands and fill the gap between tube and blank.

Throw the barrel trimmer away, they are the devils work. Use a bench sander, transfer punches and a magnetic V block, been doing this for years before it became so popular.

Start slow till you get the blank round, not so much stress and pressure on the glue, then whack it up to turning speed.

PS. 2 part epoxy for acrylic blanks.

Oh, this just came in while I was replying to another, thanks :)

I might have been starting the turn too fast, I'll play around a bit with speeds. Hmmmm, I could also round them a bit then drill them out if needed. I'll give that some thought but might be a way around my lack of skill until I get up to speed (no pun intended).

Two part epoxy ..... oh how I hate that stuff but I had been wondering about that.

Thanks everyone for the help here. I'm not new to woodworking, but this dark art of turning is completely new to me.

:)


Drill guages, got it and will do :)

Interesting that nobody likes the barrel trimmer, I'd read somewhere that they are a must so was sticking with it .... but admit I really didn't like it. Have a bench sander. Transfer punches? Just for centering the hole? Do I need thst if I'm drilling the hole on the lathe?

 

[Lons]

Transfer punches? Just for centering the hole? Do I need thst if I'm drilling the hole on the lathe?

A transfer punch set is very cheap and one of the most useful things you can get. You will need them at some stage if you need to disassemble a pen.
Apart from that if you make a simple jig for your disk sander you would use the correct size punch to keep the end of the blank tight and square to the sanding disk. My simple jig, like others has a drill chuck fitted to hold the punch so it's seconds to set up.

I usually glue up blanks in batches and prefer poly glue ( gorilla or similar ) for wood and epoxy for acrylic as I don't like or trust CA. Very rare indeed to get a failure.

I use kids modelling clay to plug the tube ends as it's cheap. Got a rollicking from the missus for using her potatoes.

 

[pittswood]

Hi Simon,
I always used medium "Everbuild" Industrial Superglue He, CA glue on sanded/roughed up brass tubes, I also use barrel trimmers with the correct sized barrel pin. Never waited overnight to dry, just a cup of tea and start. Slow speed to trim down edges and not much pressure. Never had any problems with the tubes. I also sharpen the face edges of the trimmers. I use a six faced/cutter trimmer. (a four faced trimmer rips out the wood on the end grain)
Make sure your drills are sharpened to the correct angles. Don't use cheap drills, only good quality from known manufacturers, (Domer, Bosch etc;)
Kelvin

 

[crazylegs]

I think it is the hole size that,s the problem. I have only ever had failure when the hole has been a wobbly fit. tight fit works with any glue for me.

 

[Dibbs]

...
Pen tubes are in theory 10mm, in practice closer to 9.75 .... tubes slide in easily, small gap if anything. However, 9.5mm bit and they won't fit.
...

Try a 9.8mm bit or even 9.7. Holes usually come out a fraction oversized in my experience

9.8 mm HSS Jobber Drill bit. | eBay
9.7 mm HSS Jobber Drill bit. | eBay