Hello (and HELP!!!)

[mike fox]

Hello All.
I am very much a beginner at pen making/woodturning although I did occasionally use my Dad's lathe about 30 or so years ago and have kept all of his woodworking tools (but not the lathe). I spent some time researching lathes and equipment and eventually deciding I was mainly interested in turning smaller objects I bought an Axminster AH1218VS (plus chuck,tools etc etc etc) as my retirement present to myself.
I was very pleased making my first pen using their deluxe mandrel but in the two months since then things have gone a bit pear shaped with Axminster and the mandrel in particular.
Not sure if this is the right place for this and apologies if it isnt but I need some advice on how much run out you should expect on the extended shaft on this piece of kit as Axminster seem to think 2mm is acceptable, but all I found is that the blanks vibrate like mad with this?
Mike

 

[woodhacker]

Welcome to the forum Mike. Your question will be answered shortly no doubt as there are loads of seasoned turners on here. Good luck. Oh and happy retirement.

 

[mike fox]

Welcome to the forum Mike. Your question will be answered shortly no doubt as there are loads of seasoned turners on here. Good luck. Oh and happy retirement.

Thanks for the welcome. The retirement part is wishful thinking but I do reach 65 and used that as a reason to make a small "investment" in some woodturning equipment!

 

[mattkemp]

What seems to be the problem perhaps some pictures and whats happening as has been said there is a lot of good turners on here and people willing to help

Matt

 

[Phil Dart]

Hi Mike - welcome to the forum.

Whilst Axminster may claim that a 2mm run out is acceptable, what they really mean is that it's within their tolerance. However, when you are on the business end of it, as you are finding out, it is anything but acceptable.

The deluxe mandrel from Axmister was the first mandrel I ever owned, and they fed me the same flannel too. I quickly replaced it. I mistakenly thought that anything Axi was bound to be good, but soon discovered that with this particular mandrel it is not the case. Mine had more run out than waving a flag at a jubilee pageant.

The Chinese mandrels are even worse, so don't waste your money there. Axi make their Evolution mandrel which is very accurate and very popular - my problem with it is that the rod is very thin, therefore the bushes from almost all kit manufacturers rattle around on it a bit too much for my liking. Others seem to be quite happy with it though.

I replaced my deluxe Axi with a Rotur, which gave fine service for many years, but the rod is now well worn and I replaced it last year with a Turners Retreat Evolution9 system. I sent the collet and morse taper back almost immediately, because I'm afraid it was hopeless, but I kept the rod (they sell them separately) which I use in my Rotur collet, with virtually no discernible run out at all.

Mandrels can be a nightmare I'm afraid. A while ago I advocated a voluntary standard for mandrels, for which I was prepared to put my money where my mouth is as far as manufacturing under the Beaufort brand was concerned. I also had 2 or 3 other major manufacturers on board, but there was so much ambivalence and negativity amongst a small handful of extremely vocal individuals that it never got off the ground. Maybe one day.

 

[Bill Mooney]

Welcome to the forum Micheal. Your mandrel shouldn't run out. Tell Axi you bought theirs because of their reputation & you expected it to be accurate, which it isn't & youre not happy with the runout. As far as you are concerned it is not fit for your purpose. Ask for a refund & stick to your guns.

 

[Pierre]

Forgetting the runout on the pen mandrel, when you bring the tail stock up to the head stock each with their appropriate centres installed do they meet precisely? I.e. 1/2 mm off is not acceptable. If they don't then it is possible to twist the bed slightly by increasing pressure on opposing feet i.e. If you consider the headstock to be the master position, then if the tailstock centre is closer to your turning position, then force the near right hand foot and the far left hand foot down, (but not to the point of lifting the other 2 feet). If this does not work and the points are still out then tell axminster that their lathe is not fit for purpose and that you require one that is fit. If however the points are precise then after ensuring that both Morse taper holes are clean and clear, ask axminster for a new mandrel without runout. Ask to speak to Colwyn Way their staff turner, he should be able to assist you.


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[mike fox]

Forgetting the runout on the pen mandrel, when you bring the tail stock up to the head stock each with their appropriate centres installed do they meet precisely? I.e. 1/2 mm off is not acceptable. If they don't then it is possible to twist the bed slightly by increasing pressure on opposing feet i.e. If you consider the headstock to be the master position, then if the tailstock centre is closer to your turning position, then force the near right hand foot and the far left hand foot down, (but not to the point of lifting the other 2 feet). If this does not work and the points are still out then tell axminster that their lathe is not fit for purpose and that you require one that is fit. If however the points are precise then after ensuring that both Morse taper holes are clean and clear, ask axminster for a new mandrel without runout. Ask to speak to Colwyn Way their staff turner, he should be able to assist you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for those who have replied and tried to help and there was me thinking it was just me! As for the lathe yes the centres do line up, I tried that when the lathe was first delivered and again yesterday and all fine.
The thing is I already had the shaft replaced in the first week then after that they were telling me it was blunt tools, my technique etc. When I persisted after a few more weeks of struggling they asked me to send the deluxe mandrel and the Evolution support centre (which I purchased when they sent me the new mandrel shaft to make sure the new shaft didnt get bent by me over tightening!) back to them and they would get their skill centre to check it out.
This I did and I then had to chase them up as they originally couldnt find it. When they did check it out they got Customer Service to ring me and say that while there was some "run out" it wasnt a big problem and they were not going to do anything about it!
They sent it back and I got it today and put the mandrel chuck in the lathe with the shaft fully extended and ran it up and measuring against the tip of the tool rest I estimate around 2mm of run out.
I dug out the original shaft and checked that and it had some run out but not quite as much, so taking my lead from a youtube video I found yesterday I "adjusted" this old shaft with a few taps from a rubber mallet and it is definitely straighter although not perfect. Not sure I want to do this to the newer shaft though.
I did take a video of the shaft rotating but I dont think I can put it up on here being a completely new member, but I have sent to it Axminster specialist after sales making a more formal complaint than just contacting customer service. Not sure I am going to get anywhere though. Do Axminster generally listen to complaints anybody know?

 

[Penpal]

Morning Michael welcome. It was a a good idea to check the tolerances,now it is time for the supplier to come to the party and rectify or replace. There seems to be a misnomer when WOOD is placed in front of LATHE, such a pity. Comparing costs of these and metal lathes manufacturers seem to say near enough for wood. Get it fixed now also seek out some help from someone with engineering background with your interests at heart.

THe acid test is to roll a mandrel on a flat surface first it should run true. Lathe chucks also depend according to type on screws to hold the chuck jaws, also there should or could be a sequence in fitting them. Try to be calm and persistent in your purchases and seek out as near to best.

If you fit and these will always be handy a dead centre in the headstock and tail stock bring them almost together and insert a thin feeler guage in the gap (get the 60 degree point ones). Bring the points gently together and you will easily see any errors 360 degrees.

Whilst assessing have known things to refer to in lining up. With the dead centre in the main heads stock check for any run out there and so forth. Pain in the bum now will pay dividends for all your future turning. Insist on satisfaction from your supplier.

All the best from over here Peter. PS look for local forum members to give you a helping hand right now when you need it.

Looks like while I was typing you were answering persist mate near enough is never good enough, seems to me time to go for the jugular through the management with your documentation and their pitiful handling.

If you do your best quietly from now giving them the opportunity to redeem themselves it may also help you. Resolution is at hand. Peter.

 

[fortress]

Hello and welcome to the forum Mike, I'm sorry I can't help you, because I don't know any of that means.

 

[Phil Dart]

Not sure I am going to get anywhere though. Do Axminster generally listen to complaints anybody know?

Customer service at Axminster is generally very good Mike. However, if you are victorious in battle, save yourself some time and just get your money back. Don't waste it in asking for yet another shaft. The Deluxe mandrel is flawed and it's more than just the fault of the shaft. If you can find a rod that you can guarantee is perfectly straight, put it in your deluxe collet to prove the point and see if you still get any run out. I'd put money on my belief that you will.

Other mandrels are available!

 

[wm460]

G'Day and welcome to the forum Mike.

 

[mike fox]

Customer service at Axminster is generally very good Mike. However, if you are victorious in battle, save yourself some time and just get your money back. Don't waste it in asking for yet another shaft. The Deluxe mandrel is flawed and it's more than just the fault of the shaft. If you can find a rod that you can guarantee is perfectly straight, put it in your deluxe collet to prove the point and see if you still get any run out. I'd put money on my belief that you will.

Other mandrels are available!

Thanks, Yes I have found them fairly quick in responding and they did change the original shaft quite readily but I seem to have hit a brick wall with them this time if the skill centre are saying they do not see the need to do anything about it. I did buy a 60 degree dead centre and had a go at doing some single blanks between centres (just had the centres running in the brass tubes) and it was ok, but quicker to do the two together! Also I am currently working my way through some slimline kits and would ideally like the bushes that fit inside the tube and that have a 60 degree angle to the outside edge but have only seen these for sale in America?

 

[Penpal]

Ordinary bushes drill out well using 60 degree centreing drills problem solved, however they the ones tapered on one end are not expensive.

Peter.

 

[Walter]

Ordinary bushes drill out well using 60 degree centreing drills problem solved, however they the ones tapered on one end are not expensive.

Peter.

That would indeed solve the problem with anything but slimline bushes (which don't fit into the tube). For slimlines Michael needs the aftermarket TBC bushes which seem to only be available in the US. At least I haven't seen them in the UK.

 

[Walter]

Unlike Phil, and of course Michael, I have not had a problem with my Axminster deluxe adjustable mandrel and many others use this model without complaint so the problem seems to be in consistncy of quality control rather than the design of the mandrel per-se. Over the years I have used or tested most makes of mandrel and find there is little difference in quality between them although none is made to the sort of tolerances I would like to see.

I find the variation in tolerances between mandrel manufacturers somewhat irritating and that is part of the reason that I almost invariably TBC nowadays. The other being that it is far more accurate and less time consuming to set up.

Good luck in your dealings with Axminster customer services Michael. I have always found them to be reasonable and helpful, but as with all large companies it depends who you end up talking to.

 

[Phil Dart]

Well, that's put me in my place. D'you wanna take this outside Hall?

 

[mike fox]

That would indeed solve the problem with anything but slimline bushes (which don't fit into the tube). For slimlines Michael needs the aftermarket TBC bushes which seem to only be available in the US. At least I haven't seen them in the UK.

Yes they are the ones I wanted to get, surprised nobody in this country produces them, they dont look that involved, but I have no idea of the complexities involved really!

 

[21William]

I just bought a cheap MT2 collet chuck from China and use it with some silver steel rod and a mandrel saver. Very inexpensive (under £10 for the chuck) and it works very well.

 

[sfurini]

+1 for a mandrel saver - I've found it much better than bringing a life centre up to the end of the mandrel