New to this and need advice please

[jackjohnsonuk]

Hi all,

Need some help please on getting started with casting resin blanks and stabilising, I have a reasonable amount of spalted wood I got off my Grandad when we emptied his workshop, and need to get it in a form suitable for turning.

From what I've read a vacuum chamber would be what I need, and as always, I'm on a budget. I do have a vacuum already from my vacuum chuck so that's one less thing to buy. Is the below any good for a pressure pot, it seemed the most wallet friendly option:

PlusVAC 20L Vacuum Degassing Chamber & safety air release valve (LAST FEW!) UK! | eBay

Open to any hints and tips, thanks for any help and advice

Jack

 

[Penpal]

Check first to see if they need stabilising nearly all of mine are sound.

Peter.

 

[Bucks]

It certainly won’t be any use as a pressure pot (not sure if that was a typo though?) but it looks like it should do pretty well for stabilising, in fact with it not having holes in the acrylic lid, it should be more suitable than a lot of others on the market.

 

[alpha1]

If you want to cast blanks do you need a pressure pot. Can you cast with out one.

 

[Bucks]

You can cast cast pen blanks without a pressure pot, but you are much more likely to get air bubbles in your blanks without using one.

With quite a bit of trial & error you should be able to get decent bubble free blanks using Polyester resin, but there is quite a learning curve with that stuff, to get bubble free blanks that aren’t brittle & chippy, it’s not a resin to be used
in the house, as it would absolutely stink the place out for days, it also needs warm dry conditions.

Some Epoxy resins in theory, can be used for pen blanks but in practice it’s very difficult to get completely bubble free casts without a pressure pot, so it’s usually recommended to use a pressure pot with Epoxy.

Polyurethane resin is just a definite no no without a pressure pot due to its quick set time.

 

[Bammer]

It certainly won’t be any use as a pressure pot (not sure if that was a typo though?) but it looks like it should do pretty well for stabilising, in fact with it not having holes in the acrylic lid, it should be more suitable than a lot of others on the market.

No No No .... do not buy this. You will not be able to stabalise a thing with it.

It will create a vacuum probably, but once you've added the juice and turn your vacuum on, it will suck all the juice into your vacuum .... goodbye Juice and goodbye vacuum pump ...

I wouldn't trust it even if you put the juice in a container.

I have 2 with acrylic lids, both are cracked and crazed, but they still work. When they finally go I'll probably get one of these.

http://www.metalclay.co.uk/cactus-juice-vacuum-stabilising-chamber-10-2-x-55-9cm-4-x-22/

More expensive but Built for the Job by the man who knows all.

As Paul said it isn't any good for use as a pressure pot.

 

[Bucks]

No No No .... do not buy this. You will not be able to stabalise a thing with it.

It will create a vacuum probably, but once you've added the juice and turn your vacuum on, it will suck all the juice into your vacuum .... goodbye Juice and goodbye vacuum pump ...

I wouldn't trust it even if you put the juice in a container.

I have 2 with acrylic lids, both are cracked and crazed, but they still work. When they finally go I'll probably get one of these.

http://www.metalclay.co.uk/cactus-juice-vacuum-stabilising-chamber-10-2-x-55-9cm-4-x-22/

More expensive but Built for the Job by the man who knows all.

As Paul said it isn't any good for use as a pressure pot.

Sorry but I totally disagree with Brads comments on the vaccum chamber that you posted a link to Jack, that pot is 11” tall so even if you stud 6” blanks on end in containers there is still enough clearance above the blanks/Juice to prevent the juice being sucked up, the cracking in the lids are usually due to the holes in the acrylic lid, I’ve had the same happen myself.

But I defiantly agree with Brad on the Turntex one he linked to, they are designed & built to the highest standards by Mr Cactus Juice himself, specifically for stabilising & if you did ever have a problem with it, I hear customer service from Curtis is second to non, not sure if you you would need the 22” tall one linked to though unless you was planning stabilising much longer pieces.

Vacuum pumps will suck the juice out of any Chamber (even the Turntex ones) if not used properly.

 

[Bucks]

Metalclay also have 16” tall Turntex chamber @ £186 or 12” tall turntex chambers @ £170 which might be more suitable for small scale stabilising.

 

[Bucks]

I have my own that I made before the Turntex ones became available over here in the UK, I did sell some to a few privalaged customers, but once Metalclay started importing the Turntex ones, I knew I wouldn’t be able to compete with them so discontinued making them, as there is a lot of time & money that goes into making them.

 

[Bammer]

Sorry but I totally disagree with Brads comments on the vaccum chamber that you posted a link to Jack, that pot is 11” tall so even if you stud 6” blanks on end in containers there is still enough clearance above the blanks/Juice to prevent the juice being sucked up, the cracking in the lids are usually due to the holes in the acrylic lid, I’ve had the same happen myself.

But I defiantly agree with Brad on the Turntex one he linked to, they are designed & built to the highest standards by Mr Cactus Juice himself, specifically for stabilising & if you did ever have a problem with it, I hear customer service from Curtis is second to non, not sure if you you would need the 22” tall one linked to though unless you was planning stabilising much longer pieces.

Vacuum pumps will suck the juice out of any Chamber (even the Turntex ones) if not used properly.

The intake is at the bottom is it not ?
So any juice will be sucked into the pump.

Or are we looking at a different link ?

 

[Bucks]

The intake is at the bottom is it not ?
So any juice will be sucked into the pump.

Or are we looking at a different link ?

I now see (and agree) with where your coming from Brad if you just pour the Juice straight into the pot, but I don’t think anyone will be just chucking gallons of juice straight into that pot without putting the blanks & juice into a separate smaller container first, so imo this chamber still stands as a better option than a lot of the other pots out there with the holes drilled int the acrylic lid, but like we both have agreed the Turntex ones would be more suitable for stabilising pen blanks & other small pieces.

 

[Bucks]

If there is a similar chamber with the intake towards the top of the pot rather than the bottom (but not in the lid) that would certainly be better, just in case you have any spillages.

 

[jackjohnsonuk]

Sorry all, this might sound like a really stupid question but

• Vacuum Chamber is needed for stabilising?
• and a pressure pot is needed (or at least helpful) for casting?

I mistakenly assumed that one vessel was capable of doing both - clearly I didn't do my research properly!

Thanks for all the advice guys - the spalted wood is pretty soft - I turned some of it yesterday to make the body of one of these:

Shepherd boy | Small crib - coloured | Crib figures | Christmas | Bjoern Koehler online shop

And it was so so soft it was crazy, the only way of leaving any grain still attached was with a Skew Chisel that was polished every third or fourth light pass.

Well, I had planned to do more casting than stabilising, some of your fantastic blanks have inspired me to have a play, so maybe putting that wood aside for a later date when more money is available, so I can buy the correct bit of kit is a better idea then, and go back to looking at pressure pots instead.

Thanks all

Jack

 

[Bammer]

I now see (and agree) with where your coming from Brad if you just pour the Juice straight into the pot, but I don’t think anyone will be just chucking gallons of juice straight into that pot without putting the blanks & juice into a separate smaller container first, so imo this chamber still stands as a better option than a lot of the other pots out there with the holes drilled int the acrylic lid, but like we both have agreed the Turntex ones would be more suitable for stabilising pen blanks & other small pieces.

I think that's what I said in my original reply. But I guess if you are doing 1 or 2 blanks a container would work, I usually do as many as I can at once, straight into the pot. Never use a container as I can get more in by arranging them in the pot.

My only concern with the turntex ones is the amount I could do at once. It would need to be a pretty big one to allow me to 30 - 40 blanks.

I really don't like the idea of the intake at the bottom. Recipe for disaster.

 

[Bammer]

Sorry all, this might sound like a really stupid question but

• Vacuum Chamber is needed for stabilising
• and a pressure pot is needed (or at least helpful) for casting

I mistakenly assumed that one vessel was capable of doing both - clearly I didn't do my research properly!

Thanks for all the advice guys - the spalted wood is pretty soft - I turned some of it yesterday to make the body of one of these:

Shepherd boy | Small crib - coloured | Crib figures | Christmas | Bjoern Koehler online shop

And it was so so soft it was crazy, the only way of leaving any grain still attached was with a Skew Chisel that was polished every third or fourth light pass.

Well, I had planned to do more casting than stabilising, some of your fantastic blanks have inspired me to have a play, so maybe putting that wood aside for a later date when more money is available, so I can buy the correct bit of kit is a better idea then, and go back to looking at pressure pots instead.

Thanks all

Jack

Jack, you can turn the soft wood without stabalising. Get some thin CA, super thin if you can get it. Once you've got it round, soak the blank in the CA, activator applied, then you can turn again. repeat as required.

Make sure you got some sort of extraction to take the fumes away or wear a decent form of protection.

 

[jackjohnsonuk]

Thanks, Bammer - I will give that a go then. So what's the advantage of stabilising then instead of using the super glue method?

 

[Bammer]

Thanks, Bammer - I will give that a go then. So what's the advantage of stabilising then instead of using the super glue method?

You'll find out when you try it

Basically

CA has nasty fumes, and can get expensive, can make a mess on yer lathe. I use this method a lot though, when using timber that hasn't been stabbed. Seems in the US they stabalise just about everything. Overkill if you ask me.

Stabalising means the wood is relatively strong. The Vacuum sucks the air out and draws the juice in. Then they are "cooked" off which hardens the juice.

 

[DaveP]

I mistakenly assumed that one vessel was capable of doing both -

Hi Jack

You did not make a mistake, a decent size vacuum chamber will serve you well...

IMHO if you want a method of casting fast curing resins then a pressure pot is the way to go, but if you want to stabilise / tint / colour wood before casting and then degas the resin (medium to slow curing) then the vacuum chamber is most useful / cost effective one to get

BACOENG 12 Liter Vacuum Chamber Kit with 3 CFM Single Stage Vacuum Pump HVAC: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

 

[mallard]

Hi all....
I am new this this as well and I am sorry if I am asking a question that may have already been answered ...but... can you explain what "stabilising" actually does and how long do you leave things under vacuum for ?

 

[DaveP]

can you explain what "stabilising" actually does

1. it impregnates the structure and prevents the wood from decomposing (for want of a better word) and also it stiffens it up so that it doesn't fall apart when turning.

2. How long to vacuum.... depends on what / how much your doing, but for degassing resin then 10 mins should do