Pen clips and ink converters

[Phil Dart]

Further to my post in Jim's http://www.penturners.co.uk/turning-pens/12011-almost-ready-go-kitless.html thread the other day.....

Clips
A small number of clips arrived yesterday, which I'll photograph and post the specs as soon as I can. I am actively trying to build a collection of clips from several sources over the next few weeks, some of which will seem familiar, and I'm hoping some of which will be completely new and different, to be able to offer a selection to help the kitless makers. I'm expecting some samples from Germany to arrive today or tomorrow in fact, which I hope will include some of the "completely different". Watch this space, and I'll post what I've already got as soon as time permits.

Ink converters
I hope by now that people are convinced by the Beaufort brand and happy with the quality of the products, and so there are Beaufort converters currently in production, which will carry our own branding.

When is a "standard International" converter not standard?....when it's made in the far east. Take the converter out of a Baron or a Jr Gent or a Prestina for instance, and watch it fall off a Bock. There is a common myth that converters supplied with pen kits are Schmidt K1's - most of them are not. They may look similar but they are technically inferior both internally and externally, not that the K1 is great to start with, and they are oversized at the mouth.

Needless to say ours are not Far Eastern and they are of the finest quality, both technically and aesthetically. I hope they will retail for around the £3 mark and they are probably about three to weeks away. (probably too late for York2 I'm afraid) They will fit the Bock housings in both sizes 5 & 6, and also fit the Bock "kit compatible" housings in both sizes. They can also be used to upgrade the converters that come the the Chinese and Taiwanese kits, the quality of which is, well, see above.

I'll keep you posted.
Phil

 

[Vic Perrin]

Sounds good Phil. When I have got the new shed up and running I must look into this kit less lark and have a go

Vic

 

[Walter]

Phil this is good news. Finding clips and decent quality converters has always been a bit of a struggle.

Now how about some decent click mechanisms? Finding replacements for broken ones is a nightmare without buying and wasting a complete kit and the ones supplied with the kits are usually not that great to start with.

 

[Penpal]

Clips are vital for me I have some quantities of kits I must use one day. Compatable hole sizes are important thanks.

Peter.

 

[Neil]

Morning Phil,

I'm confused! You state in your pitch that the "standard converter" that comes with (or fits) many of the Baron/Jr Gents "fall(s) off a bock".

Logic: Therefore the bock is smaller than a Jr Gents/Baron.

Fact: The Jr Gents/Baron, accepts the significant majority (cant name any that it doesnt) of the industries International Short Cartridge such as Caran D'ache, Diamine, Kawaeco, Herbin, Faber Castell etc etc.

Logic: The bock doesnt.


You say in your closing statement that the converters that you are going to supply can also be used to upgrade the converters that come with the chinese/taiwanese kits. Hmm?? How come, because these converters of yours fit the bock, which doesnt fit the converter that comes with the chinese kits that you want to replace with your converter.

That doesnt make sense.

 

[Phil Dart]

Neil - its a question of tolerances. You don't have to take my word for it, you can try it for yourself. The far eastern kit converters have a wider mouth, to slip on to the feed intake of a kit housing which is marginally wider than an "International" feed intake is supposed to be. The Baron feed intake in front of me measures up at 2.5mm O/D. However, they fall off a Bock, and a Schmidt and a Jowo and a Heritage and a....(you get the picture) which all measure up at 2.35mm. I see where your logic is coming from, but given the standards come out of the western world not the eastern, it's just that your logic is the wrong way round. It's not that Bocks are too small, it's that far eastern ones are too big.

Beaufort Ink's new converters are tolerant enough to fit all of those AND the kit housings, because they are designed to do so and made from materials that allow it to happen. The reason the cartridges you mention also fit everything, is because they have a narrower mouth which is made from a softer material than a converter, and presumably in the cases you mention, they too are made properly.

There may be kits out there that I have no personal experience of, which are made to the correct standard, but those which are commonly available in the UK are not.

As I say, I'm not making this up. There is no point in my trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. Just try it for yourself. The kit converters that are made in China or Taiwan to fit Chinese/Taiwanese kits, do not fit European housings, but a Beaufort converter will fit both European AND Chinese/Taiwanese housings.

 

[Neil]

Phil, there's some logic in what you've said and if its down to the material flexibility that's fine. My logic remains sound as the comparative big and small were made against each other not the standard! Speaking of the standard I have been trying to track it down for donkeys years as I had a pratt who tried to take me to court over a pen that he said was not fit for purpose as the International Standard Cartridges wouldnt fit the pen he had. (It transpired it was not an aperture width issue). BSI couldnt come up with a standard and the WES technical officer evaded the question as well. One Cartridge manufacturer couldnt answer the question, at which point I gave up. Where is the standard written down, is it an EN, ASTM, ISO?? Have you got a copy? Have you found it on the web?

 

[Phil Dart]

I think you'll find its a convention, not a laid down legal standard. The compatibility is not "International Standard" but "Standard International" A subtle difference I know, but an important one. My reference in my previous post above to the standards coming from the western world was with a small "s" and not intended to infer anything legislative, so I'm sorry if that has misled anyone.

As far as I know, there is no technical standard or legislation that must be adhered to. It is more a case of manufacturers adhering to the same size specifications. I don't know where or why it came about, but my guess is that the momentum came from the ink manufactures rather than the nib manufacturers, the latter realising that if they wanted to sell nibs, they had to either conform to a common configuration which had somehow, somewhere gained a foothold, or make their own cartridges as Parker and Waterman do. However, given that those two in particular had a goodly head start on the rest of the field, and made the whole pen, not just the nib, it made sense to get some kind of common understanding in place. But to the best of my knowledge, that's all it is - a common understanding (unless you're Chinese of course)

 

[Jim]

It is great to see this happening Phil, it makes our hobby much easier knowing the tackle we need is right on our door step ..

 

[InkyFingers]

Hi Phil,

Can you post a link to the Ink converters, I can't find them on youre site.

Cheers

Inky

 

[Phil Dart]

I haven't got them yet Inky, so they're not on the website yet I'm afraid. Another two or three weeks should have it all sorted, and I'll be shouting pretty loudly when it is.

 

[Penpal]

Just coming to grips with nibs in general and the number of broadly classified two toned iridium tipped german ones quite a minefield IMHO.

Peter.