Pen Finish problem

[silver]

Roller ball in Kingwood

I thought I would share this with you all as I'm racking my little brain to see what has actually happened.

This was a pen that some of you mat remember that /i posted a while ago, the finish looked superb and I was very happy with it.



Now I have had it returned and it is as you see it in the picture below



Now this is a first for me, the CA is perfectly intact, but the colour looks like its under the CA.

I'm lost. any ideas.. ? ?

It was a dry well seasoned wood, stored indoors for 3 weeks prior to turning it. workshop was warm and the CA was brand new as well. (I ran out at the time had to wait for new) Same CA that I have used in the past as well.

I turned two pens at the same time and the other one is perfect..

I wont bother stripping it or doing anything with it I will just replace it. But didn't want it to happen again.. (luckily still have a couple of Retros spare..)

Look forward to your comments..

 

[brody2123]

Is it where tape has been on the blank maybe? I've had tape adhesive do the same looking thing to some of my stuff?

 

[edlea]

Looks like its been left somewhere where the sunlight has caught it.

 

[Jim]

Water, or if the wood is oily Eamonn .. I have had this with Cocobolo .. I was told to seal the ends with a tad of CA before using Micromesh with water for the very same reason my friend ..

 

[Terry]

This is why I prefer to put a coat of sanding sealer on first before applying CA. I'm not saying it is foolproof but if water or oil is doing it then the sealer will act as a barrier !!!

 

[Buckeye]

It has definitely de-laminated, but in a really strange place, at the ends I could understand, but where it is then I can only think oily wood is the culprit, be interesting to see if it continues to de-laminate.

Peter

 

[bellringer]

It the oil in the timber i have the same on some mexican kingwood

 

[silver]

Thanks for the replies guys, keep them coming.

Water, or if the wood is oily Eamonn .. I have had this with Cocobolo .. I was told to seal the ends with a tad of CA before using Micromesh with water for the very same reason my friend ..

This was cut from a 50mm square piece and I turned the fountain pen from the same piece.. So I agree oily could be the problem but I have always used white spirit on cocobolo and rosewoods, sanding sealer and then start with my CA.

Is it where tape has been on the blank maybe? I've had tape adhesive do the same looking thing to some of my stuff?

I don't tape my own blanks I use rubber bands.. But can see where your coming from.

It has definitely de-laminated, but in a really strange place, at the ends I could understand, but where it is then I can only think oily wood is the culprit, be interesting to see if it continues to de-laminate.

I'm tempted to strip it down to see if its de laminated, e surface looks good at the moment. May leave it to see what happens.
Peter

It the oil in the timber i have the same on some mexican kingwood

As per answer for Jim above, but agree it could be oil.

But the piece of wood came out of a piece of 50mm square timber for this and the other fountain pen. I can't see why the other one that was turned out of the same piece of wood and same technique has not currently shown the same problem. Unless that waiting to happen..

I might just decide to strip it down and see what it shows.. But then again..

 

[silver]

Looks like its been left somewhere where the sunlight has caught it.

I did think that myself Ed, but knowing the owner they would probably have never had it out and used it never mind leaving in the sunlight..

Anyway, what sunlight? we live in the Midlands and not on the Golden mile..:wink:

 

[Buckeye]

I would have thought that if you run the back of your nail on the suspect area you might see it flex which would indicate de-lamination or a scalpel blade to break the surface and it should then be easy to flake it off, if it is de-laminated. It's quite worrying, I hope you find the cause. I use acetone to wipe oily woods now, but I don't know if that is any better than your method.

Peter

 

[jameshj]

I have just joined the forum and come across your post, acetone (nail polish remover) can cause this kind of mark as it can be used as a debonder, also heat (open flame, ciggie red end, steam, very hot radiator). I would say it has happened after you sold it. If you have found the cause i would be interested what caused it..

 

[Walter]

Interesting!!

Does the band of discoloration go all the way round the blank Eamonn? If so then that would almost certainly rule out fading caused by partial differential exposure to light which would likely only have affected one side.

If it is only on one side however, then that does not rule out the other suggestions. If it has delaminated then Buckeye's suggested methods should prove or disprove that, otherwise it may just be that part of one layer of CA was not fully hardened before later layers were applied and has subsequently dried in anaerobic conditions under the surface where it has gone cloudy for reasons similar to those explained by Neil here:

http://www.penturners.co.uk/turning-pens/4429-using-ca-glue-finish-oak.html#post61223

 

[Neil]

My sixpenny worth.

Its not the fact that the wood is oily - if it was then the whole pen would have been affected. Also there is no adverse reaction with oil, per se, and ca, many use a CA BLO mixture. I dont know what the chemical changes that occur to Linseed oil are when you boil it but I cant see this affecting the CA either way. Lots of woods are oily and I cant see any factually based recommendations anywhere. Goosle the issue and you will find lots of opinions and no facts.

Chemically the most likely reason is that the curing of the CA has been inhibited by some acidic compound or liquid. However as you probably didnt manage to finish it and package and despatch within two minutes this should have shown itself before you sent it, or at least immediately on receipt by the client. I believe from this thread that the situation developed and the marks appeared over a period of time?

If this is the case and the finish was perfect at the time of it being made, then something has attacked the wood or the finish to change the appearance. The CA cured and was stable at the time of production so I think it is reasonable to summise that the issue is not with the CA, or the curing of it. Issues with the whitening or clouding of CA happen almost instantly and are associated with accelerators or inhibitors. Logically then it must be something that is in or on the wood, and for it to appear as it has, it would have interfered with the wood after it was turned.

On a side issue, I (with FP), as Terry does, use a sealer of some sorts before finishing, but I do this as bare wood draws the oils out of friction polish making it dull and being the main reason for the claim that it is not as durable for a pen finish. Record friction polish is the only one to claim that it should be applied direct on to bare wood, but frankly, I think that this is wrong, if bare wood will draw the oil out of friction polish it will out of records friction polish as well, IMHO (which means - I could well be wrong, or, there is no basis in fact to my claim, or this is what I think!!). However CA works best on porous surfaces, and as the sealer makes it a less porous surface, what is the point in applying a sealer to a pen that you are going to coat with CA? Seal it from what, cured CA is inert and acts as a sealer anyway.

All said and done, I don't think that you are going to deduce, with any certainty what caused it, but I wouldnt alter anything you do as a result of this, an unusual fluke I think caused by some contamination of some description.

Me thinks Eamonn has been having a sneaky Haddock and Chips in the workshop and has mucky fingers! Now, if it were Jim, then the problem would be Black pudding.

 

[Grump]

Sorry Neil but you are sooo wrong, I hate to disagree with a man of your knowledge and experience in these things.
Having written such an eloquent piece of factual text as above.
I happen to know that Jim also likes fish and chips init?

 

[silver]

I would say it has happened after you sold it. If you have found the cause i would be interested what caused it..

I have every confidence in that the owner would not even dare to have nothing like nail varnish remover anywhere near their pen collection. I will post on here once if I find anything out.

Interesting!!

Does the band of discoloration go all the way round the blank Eamonn?

Yes Walter, the ring goes all around the pen.

My sixpenny worth.

Chemically the most likely reason is that the curing of the CA has been inhibited by some acidic compound or liquid. However as you probably didnt manage to finish it and package and despatch within two minutes this should have shown itself before you sent it, or at least immediately on receipt by the client.

Me thinks Eamonn has been having a sneaky Haddock and Chips in the workshop and has mucky fingers! Now, if it were Jim, then the problem would be Black pudding.

Oh bugger.. been found out..

I had Made the pen and was with me for nearly a month prior to them taking it and there was no signs of marking.

Sorry Neil but you are sooo wrong, I hate to disagree with a man of your knowledge and experience in these things.
Having written such an eloquent piece of factual text as above.
I happen to know that Jim also likes fish and chips init?

Any way.. I have had a very sharp needle, golds sewing box has been attacked. The finish has not laminated and there is no air gap under the marked area..

I don't think its worth stripping down wither as I don't believe I will ever find out what it was or is now after reading you experienced replies..