Sierra Elegance

[TaylorsMirfield.co.uk]

Evening all.

I plan to develop a kit with the design of the Zeta but larger to rival the likes of the Sierra Elegance. My question is, do people feel that a kit like this would be of interest? Is there a market? And could I tempt people aware for the Sierra Elegance?

Thoughts would be great.

 

[Vic Perrin]

Dan your style of pen, your customer service and your pricing could tempt me away from anything that I have purchased in the past

 

[Midnightlunchbox]

I prefer the kits with lids, panache, gent, atrax, etc and I really fancy getting some Churchill kits. Sierra and it's derivatives don't do it for me. But that's just me. I do want to get some of the omega kits you sell though, just need to get round to it.

 

[TaylorsMirfield.co.uk]

I prefer the kits with lids, panache, gent, atrax, etc and I really fancy getting some Churchill kits. Sierra and it's derivatives don't do it for me. But that's just me. I do want to get some of the omega kits you sell though, just need to get round to it.

Thanks Craig, as most people are aware I try to distance myself for the main stream kits for a number of reasons but my main reason is that a lot of my customers are in the market of selling pens. I need to offer them a product that they feel confident with. The UK market in my opinion is flooded with poor quality kits. I have always been keen to change that. I have a couple more kits in the pipeline with lids :)

 

[Bill Mooney]

Dan I like & make the Elegance but some say they are a bit heavy so the Zeta may be the best bet. I haven't made a Zeta yet so I can't make a comparison.

 

[Neil]

Dan,

The Sierra Elegance, reasonably cost effective, also marketed as a straightforward Sierra, Axminster sell it and sometimes have it on as a 50% special during which time I tend to stock up. Nobody can beat this loss leader. My opinion, dont do it, look somewhere else and use your current source to supply the Sierra, dont dilute the Zeta market, put your money elsewhere, somewhere nobody else can get to, stand aside from the other suppliers!

 

[chas_41_uk]

The Sierra Elegance, reasonably cost effective, also marketed as a straightforward Sierra, Axminster sell it and sometimes have it on as a 50% special during which time I tend to stock up. Nobody can beat this loss leader. My opinion, dont do it, look somewhere else and use your current source to supply the Sierra, dont dilute the Zeta market, put your money elsewhere, somewhere nobody else can get to, stand aside from the other suppliers!

Neil has put exactly what I was thinking

 

[wm460]

Dan, is the Sierra Elegant, same as the Berea's Sierra Elegant Beauty? or is it like the Sierra Vista?

 

[Grump]

Thanks Craig, as most people are aware I try to distance myself for the main stream kits for a number of reasons but my main reason is that a lot of my customers are in the market of selling pens. I need to offer them a product that they feel confident with. The UK market in my opinion is flooded with poor quality kits. I have always been keen to change that. I have a couple more kits in the pipeline with lids :)

Stick with those ethics and you won't go far wrong Dan.

 

[Phil Dart]

No Mark it's the Berea Elegant Sierra.
Neil, the Axminster ES is frankly shite, and even at 50% discount it's still shite. The Berea ES is a kit of quality - the plating, the fittings, the mechanism, the CB - they are poles apart.

Dan, speaking for myself, (and I posted a thread recently asking if there is a UK supplier), the Berea ES in gunmetal and chrome is one of my best sellers - I get through 5 to 10 a week. I see exactly what people are saying about the dilution of your Zeta sales, but, again speaking for myself, the main attraction apart from the quality of the kit, is the versatility of the tube. I glue up large batches of blanks in advance, and I can then take the same blank to make into a whole raft of different kits because the tubes are interchangeable.

It's a tough decision you're going to have to make, but if you can produce a Berea ES equivalent in gm/chrome, using the same tube, for about a fiver, I would certainly buy them at probably 50 or 100 at a time, but I do realise I am but one customer.

 

[Neil]

Neil, the Axminster ES is frankly shite, and even at 50% discount it's still shite. The Berea ES is a kit of quality - the plating, the fittings, the mechanism, the CB - they are poles apart.

No Phil, its not shite, with or without the "e". What I said was that it was reasonably cost effective, and that is what it remains. If your market is top end, dont dabble with the Axminster kit, but if your market is the commodity market, then dont waste your money with the Berea kits. From your perspective I can see that you would want a top quality kit without the hassles of getting a taiwanese kit from an American supplier and paying over the odds for the benefit of it having a round the world cruise, but from a commerical perspective, and where volume is king, I would suggest to Dan to put his money else where.

A horrible phrase, but its horses for courses, not shite.

 

[silver]

Dan,

I couldn't agree more with Neil.

I keep getting asked for smaller pens rather than bigger pens.

The Zeta and Epsillon filled that part for me.

The sierra is a bigger tubed pen and in my view the Zeta kills that market.

If I could get a better quality "cross" type kit then I would look seriously in to those, along with a smaller 8mm tubed "Parker" style kit.

As for 8mm tube kits, I have not seen any good quality ones for a long while now (Neil may confirm that) but they are a much smaller kit and was very popular.

What I get is small is best, if that makes sense.

 

[TaylorsMirfield.co.uk]

Dan,

I couldn't agree more with Neil.

I keep getting asked for smaller pens rather than bigger pens.

The Zeta and Epsillon filled that part for me.

The sierra is a bigger tubed pen and in my view the Zeta kills that market.

If I could get a better quality "cross" type kit then I would look seriously in to those, along with a smaller 8mm tubed "Parker" style kit.

As for 8mm tube kits, I have not seen any good quality ones for a long while now (Neil may confirm that) but they are a much smaller kit and was very popular.

What I get is small is best, if that makes sense.

Are you aware of any examples of the 8mm tube Parker style kits?

 

[Neil]

Are you aware of any examples of the 8mm tube Parker style kits?

The Elegant American Ball Point, but to be specific its a 21/64 tube. Its a good seller at the bottom of the price range but suffers from a poorly designed centre band, if something could be done with that it would be a good pen. Been around for donkeys. The Sculpted pen from PSI is also an 8mm kit but is too top heavy but popular with ladies who like a bit of decoration. Think the Button click pen is an 8mm but that uses a terrible click mechanism and should only be touched with a barge pole. Am sure there are others but brain is in neutral.

 

[Phil Dart]

There's also the 8mm euro round top and american flat top from turners retreat. Never made the flat top, but I used to churn out the round tops until the quality control went out the window. I ended up sending about 50 back to TR for a refund and now use the elegant american on Neils recommendation, but I'm not a great fan. There's also the TR retro, which is actuality 8.7mm, but that's quite a nice kit, well balanced and quite petite.

 

[paulm]

My best sellers are ones with a cap or slim/streamlines and would prefer something different rather than a replacement for the same that isn't too bad a kit in my opinion (well not down the bottom of the list of inferiority anyway). How about something retro looking?

 

[Neil]

There's also the 8mm euro round top and american flat top from turners retreat. Never made the flat top, but I used to churn out the round tops until the quality control went out the window. I ended up sending about 50 back to TR for a refund and now use the elegant american on Neils recommendation, but I'm not a great fan. There's also the TR retro, which is actuality 8.7mm, but that's quite a nice kit, well balanced and quite petite.

Agree with you on the Elegant Phil, its not the best looker in the world but reasonably cheap for the bottom end of the market, which pen do you mean when you say the TR Retro? The Retro pen that TR sell claims to be a 7mm?? Never made more than one of them as it was in my early days and I think I put the bits in the wrong way round and it all went pear shaped.

Dan, If you could do a pen with some centre band style based on the elegant that would be different and a good seller (in my opinion). A bit of subtle detailing in the top/clip would be good.

 

[Phil Dart]

Agree with you on the Elegant Phil, its not the best looker in the world but reasonably cheap for the bottom end of the market, which pen do you mean when you say the TR Retro? The Retro pen that TR sell claims to be a 7mm?? Never made more than one of them as it was in my early days and I think I put the bits in the wrong way round and it all went pear shaped.

Dan, If you could do a pen with some centre band style based on the elegant that would be different and a good seller (in my opinion). A bit of subtle detailing in the top/clip would be good.

Neil - TR have it mis-labelled. It is in fact an 8.7mm tube (actually a tad more) and it takes a parker style. I've told them about the error several times, but they don't seem to have caught on.

Dan - I have to agree with Neil's last point, and the previous comments about two piece 8mm parkers. There really is nothing descent out there at the moment apart from the retro which is a bit quirky. Where the Elegant American goes wrong in my opinion, is that it doesn't have a centre band - not just from a aesthetic point of view, but also from a practical one. If you get the length of your cap barrel wrong, even by a fraction of a millimetre, the mechanism sits wrong and it won't twist properly, meaning you have to spend half as long again as it took to make the bugger, in order to sort it out. Very rarely is it plain sailing to assemble them in my experience, but perhaps I'm approaching it the wrong way.

So yes, much as I would like to see good ES equivalent in the UK, I would also REALLY love to see a GOOD two piece G2 mainstream twist pen that isn't too chunky or top heavy or quirky, because as far as I'm aware, there just isn't one at the moment. Not much to ask is it?

 

[silver]

Dan, If you could do a pen with some centre band style based on the elegant that would be different and a good seller (in my opinion). A bit of subtle detailing in the top/clip would be good.

Nooooooooooooo :nonono::nonono::nonono:
It looks the most hideouse looking pen in the world. It would end up looking like THIS
:nonono:

Dan - I have to agree with Neil's last point, and the previous comments about two piece 8mm parkers.

There really is nothing descent out there at the moment exactly, nothing out there of any quality

Where the Elegant American goes wrong in my opinion, is that it doesn't have a centre band - not just from a aesthetic point of view, but also from a practical one. nooooooooooo don't do it.. The tube is short enough without coming up with a crap shorter looking length.. See comment above..

So yes, much as I would like to see good ES equivalent in the UK, I would also REALLY love to see a GOOD two piece G2 mainstream twist pen that isn't too chunky or top heavy or quirky, because as far as I'm aware, there just isn't one at the moment. Not much to ask is it?that is why I said a good 8mm pen kit.

Dan, Neil and Phill have covered most of the 8mm, well nearly when they are 8.7

There was a kit that Neil commented on from CSUK that was a click pen and agree it was really pants, they also had the same size tubes with twist action that never took off due to the poor designs and quality of kit. I remember them well.

if I can dig out some old pictures I will, they will be pictures as it was before digital took off.

My point is that there is not a decent 8mm Parker style "slimline" pen on the market. Yes the sculptured pen is a 8mm but the design is really dated now and needs a kick up the ass and move on.

Forget the elegant with a centre band, think you get my view above:nonono:

My advisors keep telling me that the pens are getting too big, fat and clumsy. So keep wanting slimmer pens. Yet they want a Parker style refill, guess what. Nothing of any quality on the market..

Said my bits now I will bugger off.. Cheers ..

 

[Neil]

Nooooooooooooo :nonono::nonono::nonono:
It looks the most hideouse looking pen in the world. It would end up looking like THIS
:nonono:

Eamonn,
The Elegant we are referring to is not the Sierra Elegance, but the Elegant American Ball Point. The similarity being that neither of them are particularly elegant.

However the Elegant we are on about, and I have to disagree, the Pulsar isnt hideous..

Its worse than that.

The Elegant in question is this