Spinning pen clips

[L33]

My dad showed me a pen yesterday...apparently I made it for him last year...totally can't remember as I've really only just started making pens, but nonetheless, there is a line around the pen where the clip has spun after much use. When I look at how most pens go together, I can see why this happens.

Is there a solution to this? I'm contemplating adding CA to the clips when I put the pens together. Having just bought a few TM pens, I don't want this happening...I think the Zeta is a good design as the clip forms part of the inserted brass portion...so hopefully this won't move. But I reckon the Epsilon may allow this spin to occur. I think CA could help, but it sets so fast it's a bit risky to try :)

 

[Penpal]

With a pic to show which kit etc it would be easier to see and talk about.

Peter.

 

[Buckeye]

You could use thread locker instead of CA, a minute amount is all it takes and is easier to take apart if you need to, plus it takes a while to go off so no danger of a quick set like CA.

Peter

 

[silver]

It does and can happen, depends on how tight the clip ring is on the cap insert in the first place.

it can happen regardless of the price of the kit as well. however, it can be caused if you use an end mill to square off and take a little off the inside of the tube.

You could use thread locker instead of CA, a minute amount is all it takes and is easier to take apart if you need to, plus it takes a while to go off so no danger of a quick set like CA.

Peter

I did try loctite a few years ago but that was a red material then and it weeded I between the clip and the fixing cap so didn't look very good. They may have changed the colour since and I may have put a little too much on it that made the mess and couldn't clean it off.

What I have done especially with the entry level JR kits ( they are bad for this problem, the ones I have done anyway) is use CA but have applied it with the ones that have the little brush attached to the cap.. works every time..

But also agree if you want to take the kit apart with this method you are "buggered"

Just for you info, I always do the same to the little black plastic cap insert (thread section ) that goes in to the JR kits.. They can have an habit of coming loose.

 

[Buckeye]

I did try loctite a few years ago but that was a red material then and it weeded I between the clip and the fixing cap so didn't look very good. They may have changed the colour since and I may have put a little too much on it that made the mess and couldn't clean it off.

I use a generic red threadlocker and it works brilliantly, if you get some that leaks to the outside then it is easy enough to clean off as it only sets when there is no air, that's why there is so little of the liquid in a bottle, there is plenty of time to clean up unlike with CA.

Peter

 

[L33]

Might try something like the locker then...hoping with the Zeta that it wouldn't be an issue because of the way the clip is designed into the brass part, but with other pens it is a concern.

 

[GSteer]

Thanks for the heads up on the threadlocker Peter, hadn't thought of that as my mind was on, er, threads! Got some of the low grip purple stuff that I'll give a go too.

 

[Buckeye]

Thanks for the heads up on the threadlocker Peter, hadn't thought of that as my mind was on, er, threads! Got some of the low grip purple stuff that I'll give a go too.

The first time I used it I made the mistake of covering the whole part with it and I couldn't get it apart again easily, now I use a cocktail stick to put the tiniest amounts on opposite sides, but I suppose if it is a part that gets a lot of handling then a bit more may be in order.

Peter

 

[Penpal]

Normal consensis is if in doubt glue it, if the kit is prone to it fix it before in a preventive way. When a mechanism fails replace it. How many failures have you had you know of?

Peter.

 

[L33]

Called Loctite this morning to see which one of their products would work the best in this situation...Loctite 326 I think they said...bargain at £42 a bottle haha. CA it is then... A little worried about the thread locker colour causing an issue, so I'm going to assemble the pen in the press, tighten half way up and try a rapid style 'Dab and Press' method! What could possibly go wrong... :)

 

[Walter]

I haven't posted here for a while although I have been calling in to see what's happening occasionally and this thread caught my attention.

This is a problem I have encountered only rarely and unlike Eamonn (whose word I am not doubting and would never question) I have not experienced it on anything other than cheap Chinese kits. If it has happened to one in a thousand pens I have made I would be surprised.

Where I unreservedly agree with Eamonn is when he says "depends on how tight the clip ring is on the cap insert in the first place". That is the source of the problem and should therefore inform the solution. Gluing or otherwise fixing the clip ring and/or the cap insert into the tube is not, in my opinion, a sensible solution as to all intents and purposes it prevents or at best makes more difficult any subsequent attempt to dismantle the pen for repair which is never a good idea. Also the idea of doing this with every pen I make in order to prevent a problem that will probably not arise is depressing. Doing it after the event is bolting the stable door.


What is required is to ensure that the clip ring is a tight fit on the cap insert before assembling the pen. If it spins too freely than a little (very) light pressure in a vice or with pliers will make the ring sufficiently out of round to stop it revolving. Not everyone has the same understanding of light pressure so if you are a bit of an oaf then you may need to exercise extra caution. An alternative is to place the clip, ring down, on a hard suface and gently centre pop the ring. A mechanical solution like this will not prevent subsequent repairs to the pen or get glue or red stuff all over the blank or components.

 

[L33]

I haven't posted here for a while although I have been calling in to see what's happening occasionally and this thread caught my attention.

This is a problem I have encountered only rarely and unlike Eamonn (whose word I am not doubting and would never question) I have not experienced it on anything other than cheap Chinese kits. If it has happened to one in a thousand pens I have made I would be surprised.

Where I unreservedly agree with Eamonn is when he says "depends on how tight the clip ring is on the cap insert in the first place". That is the source of the problem and should therefore inform the solution. Gluing or otherwise fixing the clip ring and/or the cap insert into the tube is not, in my opinion, a sensible solution as to all intents and purposes it prevents or at best makes more difficult any subsequent attempt to dismantle the pen for repair which is never a good idea. Also the idea of doing this with every pen I make in order to prevent a problem that will probably not arise is depressing. Doing it after the event is bolting the stable door.


What is required is to ensure that the clip ring is a tight fit on the cap insert before assembling the pen. If it spins too freely than a little (very) light pressure in a vice or with pliers will make the ring sufficiently out of round to stop it revolving. Not everyone has the same understanding of light pressure so if you are a bit of an oaf then you may need to exercise extra caution. An alternative is to place the clip, ring down, on a hard suface and gently centre pop the ring. A mechanical solution like this will not prevent subsequent repairs to the pen or get glue or red stuff all over the blank or components.

The pen that is of concern to me is a slimline pen (Axminster) 951814 to be precise. I've got quite a few of these and whilst a small, select few people have said they don't spend the time on finishing these to the same quality as some of their more expensive pen kits, I do...I like to make sure that if somebody wants to buy a cheaper slimline from me or a more expensive TM pen, then the quality and craftsmanship is the same. The problem here though is the fact that the design difference causes me concerns.

For example, the Zeta clip is part of the insert portion, so in theory, it shouldn't really spin round after many months of handling. The slimline however, is different. The clip is part of a smooth ring which is held from turning only by the friction of the two parts either side (don't know the names). All 3 mating parts are smooth, shiny and coated so there really isn't enough friction to prevent the clip from being turned. When I say turned or spinning, I mean with moderate amount of pressure...which being placed inside a shirt pocket several times a day will do.

When I sell a pen, it looks great. But my concern is, after repeated use the clip can begin to turn and that results in the body of the pen getting scratched...no matter what finished has been applied. The design of this clip wouldn't benefit from being squeezed with pliers, and the cap bit is far too thick in this case for a punch to spread a little...plus the size of the ring is too big to get a good result this way...

Maybe the reason is the quality of the kit, but I don't have enough experience of kits to know that yet. Also, the fact that all the surface are flat and smooth can't help. Even when I press everything together nice and tight, I can still spin the clip...albeit I have to apply a fair bit of pressure...but still, it turns.

I'm not really a big fan of slimlines, but at craft fairs I'm finding people like them...they are less expensive and seem to sell better than other more pricier pens...to me it's a design flaw, but most pen kits seem to be like this. I can see CA preventing the spin but as you say, it could cause problems with repair and it's not ideal having to glue every pen I make. Plus, a little too much and the pen is ruined. Of course, get it spot on and it's problem solved, but it shouldn't really be a necessary process.

So I'm a bit stuck...not sure what your thoughts are Walter, but perhaps I'm just wanting perfection from a kit costing only a couple of quid haha, but even some more expensive kits have the same issue. A clip ring and cap with a serrated edge would possibly solve the problem, but that's not an option here. Everything is nice and tightly pressed, but doesn't eliminate the problem. I am a perfectionist but hopefully that won't be held against me...I'm just trying to find a solution to a problem and struggling :)

 

[Walter]

The problem Lee, is in the quality of the components. The tolerances on some kits, more especially the cheaper ones, into which category most slimlines fall, are not to precision engineering standards. They are churned out in far eastern factories where keeping the manufacturing cost down is a far greater priority than producing a quality product. Ideally the ring of the clip should be a press fit on the cap insert and should not therefore revolve. On many of the better quality kits the ring is a tight enough fit to prevent the clip from turning once assembled. Note that I said better quality not more expensive, there being no direct correlation between price and quality.

 

[L33]

The problem Lee, is in the quality of the components. The tolerances on some kits, more especially the cheaper ones, into which category most slimlines fall, are not to precision engineering standards. They are churned out in far eastern factories where keeping the manufacturing cost down is a far greater priority than producing a quality product. Ideally the ring of the clip should be a press fit on the cap insert and should not therefore revolve. On many of the better quality kits the ring is a tight enough fit to prevent the clip from turning once assembled. Note that I said better quality not more expensive, there being no direct correlation between price and quality.

I think the best thing for me to do then is buy several slimlines from different suppliers...Like you say, more money doesn't guarantee better quality. Then find a kit I'm happy with, bulk buy...and just hope they don't change the design :)

 

[wm460]

at £42 a bottle haha.

You better buy a couple and keep them for back up in case they run out.

 

[Penpal]

I do remember when Slimline making required making a small rectangular groove in the cap end the brass had this shape in manufacture the clip never had a chance to move anyway.

Public demand caused this method of manufacture to be discontinued. So one time it was a recognised prevention. People objected to making the small cut out. How times change.

Peter.