Tool of choice

[Superbike_2]

Hi there,
Ive been having a few issues with torn grain and wondering if it's potentially down to tool choice. The first pen I made I used only a roughing gouge and the results were very good. I have mde a few more pens since and started with a skew then moved on to a spindle gouge, and on each of these there has been torn grain at the end of the tube. Im sanding to 400 grit but obviously this doesnt get rid of the torn grain. Today I made another slimline with a walnut blank and it turned out pretty well apart from again some torn grain at the end of the tube. So my question is, do people find that just using a roughing gouge gives better results than using other tools?

 

[Penpal]

No best use of a bowl gouge and scraper laid on the flat,because I am a collector I also use twenty other chisels sometimes.

Peter.

 

[wm460]

My preference is a 1/2" shew.

 

[Lons]

I wouldn't personally use a scraper and bowl gouge while "spindle turning" a pen as Peter suggests, I think he's probably misunderstood your problem as he is very experienced..
I wouldn't advise a scraper on wood while spindle turning although many do so and it is possible to produce shavings and a reasonable finish it's also much more likely to tear the grain especially for a novice. I have used one and a tct tipped scraper on ebony and some very hard lignum vitae with good result and often on acrylic blanks.

I think it's just a matter of practice and techique so keep at it, maybe best to just spend some time actually turning wood to get a feel of the tools rather than actually making something. Practicing just shaping the wood, try light and heavy cuts and you'll soon get a feel for what you're doing and what you shouldn't do which is even more important.

Very important is that you're tools are razor sharp so spending time on achieving that is more than worthwhile and you'll get quicker as you go. What is you're sharpening set up?

I mostly use a roughing gouge for all or all but the final touch on a pen but alsi a skew chisel which gives a polished finish straight from the tool needing just a light touch of abrasive.

 

[Penpal]

I wouldn't personally use a scraper and bowl gouge while "spindle turning" a pen as Peter suggests, I think he's probably misunderstood your problem as he is very experienced..
I wouldn't advise a scraper on wood while spindle turning although many do so and it is possible to produce shavings and a reasonable finish it's also much more likely to tear the grain especially for a novice. I have used one and a tct tipped scraper on ebony and some very hard lignum vitae with good result and often on acrylic blanks.

I think it's just a matter of practice and techique so keep at it, maybe best to just spend some time actually turning wood to get a feel of the tools rather than actually making something. Practicing just shaping the wood, try light and heavy cuts and you'll soon get a feel for what you're doing and what you shouldn't do which is even more important.

Very important is that you're tools are razor sharp so spending time on achieving that is more than worthwhile and you'll get quicker as you go. What is you're sharpening set up?

I mostly use a roughing gouge for all or all but the final touch on a pen but alsi a skew chisel which gives a polished finish straight from the tool needing just a light touch of abrasive.

Not so my friend BOB have a good long look at the last pen I posted two chisels,one a bowl gouge,not roughing and a skew on the flat,minor finishing then with 1200 grit paper I cut into strips 3/4 inch wide. This followed by one coat of CA.

Peter.

 

[Bammer]

Without actually watching what you are doing, I would suggest it's down to Sharpness and or Technique.

you'll get 100's of answers of which tool, just keeping going and find your favourite.

There are lots out there who only use carbide, many in the US, but that's probably what they learnt with.

I use a continental 1/2 spindle gouge, I can use a skew if I want but find when I'm in production mode that's all I need.

Practice practice practice. Keep at it and one day you'll get that eureka moment.

 

[Dalboy]

First of all I will start with the obvious tools sharp as already mentioned this is the biggest thing that a lot of people starting out need to address. Second is there are many tools that will be suitable to turn a pen it normally down to personal choice. With wood cut from the centre down to the ends so that you are cutting downhill.
There is nothing wrong in a spindle roughing gouge I use mine for pens my favourite tool is the 1/2" skew for refining the shape either used planing or even scraping depending on the wood.
I have made a pen using a 1 1/2" roughing gouge and a 1 1/4" skew just to show someone it can be done.

 

[KevinMc]

I just love it when you get insight into the secret life in sheds of the world...

Kevin

 

[21William]

Are you getting torn grain on both ends of the tube? Just wondering about your technique.

 

[Vic Perrin]

Practice Practice Practice and then Practice a bit more. You will find which tool suits you best and eventually you will be able to get a good finish no matter what tool you use. The most important bit which has already been mentioned a few times KEEP EM SHARP !

 

[Dibbs]

I'm no expert but FWIW I finish with a skew used sideways as a scraper, freshly sharpened and very, very lightly.

When I used a mandrel I used to get harmonic vibrations quite often but recently I've taken to just putting bushings between centres and that problem has gone away.

 

[Bill Mooney]

I use a homemade tool. Nothing wrong with the roughing gouge but from your 3 tools mentioned I prefer the skew. As already mentioned I would put it down to technique, tool sharpness & lathe speed. I turn on max revs & sand at approx 900 rpm.
Slow light cuts, give your tool time to cut so it’s not plucking the timber out. You shouldn’t get much if any tear out using a skew. Stick some cheap timber in the lathe & practice different techniques, there’s nothing to spoil as you haven’t drilled & glued the tube in the blank. Once you get better at it try a piece of pine. If you can turn it without any tear out you can very nearly turn any timber. Practice, practice & more practice.

 

[Neil Lawton]

I might be missing the point here but torn grain at the ends sounds a little more like a milling / sanding problem than tooling to me?

 

[Lons]

Not so my friend BOB have a good long look at the last pen I posted two chisels,one a bowl gouge,not roughing and a skew on the flat,minor finishing then with 1200 grit paper I cut into strips 3/4 inch wide. This followed by one coat of CA.

Peter.

Sorry Peter but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I didn't say you couldn't use a bowl gouge, of course you can, I could but then both of us are experienced, in my case I've been spinning wood on and off since I was 12 and I'm now 69. However the advice given is for a newbie and therefore should imo be different in as much it should be the best practice and easiest for the job in hand. I'm sure you in the past did the same as me and made tools from old files and chisels etc. which most people frown on these days.

A bowl gouge has as you know got deep flutes for a reason, that's why it's designed and sold for faceplate turning.
A scraper works well and as I said useful in the hands of experienced turners but... it's very easy indeed, especially for a beginner to get a dig in and unless REALLY sharp and using light cuts they will inevitably tear the grain on spindle turning as opposed to a gouge or skew which polishes the wood on the bevel.

So that in mind I firmly believe my advice is absolutely correct and in the best interests of educating someone just starting out. Remember we have another member on here who finds it impossible to turn wood and I would hate the OP to find himself disillusioned because he's not practicing best techniques.

No disrespect whatsoever intended Peter, we've corresponded often enough over the years for you hopefully to believe I wouldn't want to do that.

Just as an aside I turned a pen today for the sales manager who gave me a very good discount off a new motorhome, very quick and simple just a piece of english oak so I took some pics. Turned to round with a roughing gouge then finished with a skew so pic before sanding with 400 & 600g then 2 coats of friction polish and one micro wax as he wanted an open grain. No torn edges and took me 10 minutes. BUT... a newbie would find that challenging!

Photos just from my 'phone so a bit naff.

Pic 1. straight from a skew chisel
pic 2. sanded to 600g
pic 3. 2 coats of friction polish
pic 4 & 5 finished pen

 

[Lons]

I might be missing the point here but torn grain at the ends sounds a little more like a milling / sanding problem than tooling to me?

Would help I think to get some photos Neil so we're singing from the same song sheet.

 

[Steve68]

My wife bought me a 3 piece Record Power pen turning tool kit. I use a larger gouge for the general shaping and the pen kit gouge for finishing. It seems to work for me.

 

[Penpal]

There are as many ways to use every chisel ever conceived. When I say this is what I do it bears no reference to anyone else since this is my way. When I served my apprenticeship as a Sparky there were established ways to go about everything. Then came graduation and my boss said first you had to learn the rules now go out and earn a living and make your own way. Its never my way or the highway. It has to be what is comfortable to you and me. I turn pens seated therefore my approach is always going to be another way.

Find your comfort zone and enjoy. I do.

Kind regards Peter.

 

[Phil Dart]

In theory you can use whatever tool you choose to make a pen. Some are obviously more suitable than others though, and Bob's point about learning the best ways from the outset are well made. At the end of the day though, the suitability of a tool and the results you get from it are really down to whether the tool is an appropriate size for the work, whether the category of tool is suitable for the material, and how you present and use it.

Without knowing a little about your technique its difficult for anyone to give you any more pointers than that really, although if you have access to a local turning club you would definitely find someone to help you out, and there is a myriad of books available on the subject too. YouTube also has countless videos about tool use, but the problem with YouTube is that as someone wishing to learn, you have no idea if the advice being given is sound, or if it's just someone wanting their 15 minutes of fame - there are plenty of turning videos like that on the net unfortunately.

 

[Lons]

James has a master turner on his doorstep Phil if he want's to avail himself of Bill Mooneys' generousity. He couldn't want for a better teacher but it's up to him to ask. I'm not that far away either if he ever gets north of Newcastle.