• Thanks for visiting The Penturners Forum today.

    There are many features and resources that currently you are unable to see or access, either because you're not yet registered, or if you're already registered, because you're not logged in.

    To gain full access to the forum, please log in or register now. Registration is completely free, it only takes a few seconds, and you can join our well established community of like-minded pen makers.

Vertex Magneti Chrome fountain pen Axminster

jim0505

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Posts
33
Location
West Sussex
First Name
Jim
Hi all, hope you have all recovered from "lack of Shed time" over the holidays and are all back in the swing.

Can anyone advise me. A customer has asked for a Vertex Premium Chrome Magnetic fountain pen, with a fine nib. He has chosen some Bog Oak to dress it in, so I'm ready to go, however, can you change the nib on this pen and is it a #5 that it uses. I will be getting the nib from Beaufort and the pen from Axminster, but before I order, I need confirmation. I assume you can change it, as it is not a cheap kit, anyone made one of these?

Any advise would be much appreciated.

Jim
 

GSteer

Registered
Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Posts
362
Location
Soaked Cumbria, UK
First Name
Greg
Good question Jim. I've had problems changing the actual nibs in the Vertex and Magnetic Graduates. After pulling the nib and feed I've found that although it appears to a #5 nib (could be a 5.5) the curvature is not the same as a #5 JoWo, the curve is tighter. If you have a bar with the same curvature then you could burnish one of the other nibs into shape, this is on my todo list though. This was in an attempt to fit a ruthenium Jowo nib onto a GM plated kit.

The answer to whether a #5 Bock supplied by Phil at Beaufort will fit... yes it will, I've just screwed a 1.1mm stub into a GM kit I have here with no problems. Feed/nib collar are the correct size and thread.
 

Penpal

Grand Master
Joined
May 26, 2013
Posts
25,342
Location
Canberra AUSTRALIA
First Name
Peter
It is with interest reading this series of discussions on fountain pens, fitting individual nibs etc. From what I read fettling in nibs is quite a science. Do you test drive your fountain pens before they leave you?

Peter.
 

Bigblackdog

Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Posts
839
Location
Leeds
First Name
Mark
i have been reading up on nib tuning. It really is an interesting subject, and sounds a bit of an art. I have the sum experience of playing with one nib, although I do a lot of writing with a fountain pen, and have done for years. Like wine, I know what I like! Take the following as a collection of my thoughts rather than speaking from any real experience.

I made a prototype pen, with a bock #5 nib in. I think that it was a fine- it was certainly finer than either of my 2 usual pens, which are medium-ish. I found it to be ok in use, but certainly not as wet as my usual users. My daughter Madeleine then used it, but being new to fountain pens, not quite as adaptive with changing writing angle to suit the pen, and left handed, she got some different results. She is 5 1/2, but wanted to try it out, so I was happy to encourage her, as she will be expected to use one at school later this year. The results that she got were a bit more that it worked or it didnt work and skipped. I turned the pen so that i was looking at the back of the nib, and put the side of my thumb nails on each side of the nib, and gently pushed back. This had the effect of opening the slit a fraction, and we both felt that it wrote better being "wetter". She wrote nicely with it, it didnt skip and on this fine nib, there was no need for a left handed version.

I am going to make her her own pen next, and will certainly do a bit more tuning to the nib than I did with this- although I will say that the bocks seem to be good quality from the get go. The problem is that a good nib is only good if it suits the user, if it doesnt, it can be tweeked. If it were for myself, I would probably not do much more than open the slit a little if it needed it. Madeleine holds the pen at a slightly steeper angle than I do, so making a few dozen figure of eights on micromesh at her preferred angle would take the hint of scratch out of it. I would do this for her because 1. I know the end user and what needs to be achieved, and 2. the work wont be chargable!!

I dont sell many pens, although I plan to sell more in the future, so I try to keep a commercial eye on things. I wouldnt want to spend long tuning a poor nub- having to regrind and shape a cheap and nasty one would be false economy when you can buy a bock from Phil for £8 or so, which is better quality, branded and doesnt have many of the problems that need correcting on the cheapie. That £8 doesnt buy much workshop time spent fiddling. This should be for refining, and tailoring, rather than correcting (in my humble opinion).

I dont know how well prepared a £50 cross/shaefer/parker fountain pen is straight from WH Smiths but what you sell has to be fit for purpose and write nicely. I had a cheapish shaefer when I was at school, and it was a nice writer. I have no idea why, but I bought it, used it and it was nice. You will be judged on how the pen writes the first time it is used- smooth and you may get a repeat customer, scratchy and the pen may never write another page.

Some of the early pens I made were 2 Omegas for a good friend in the USA. I would very much like to have a look at them now and spend a few minutes test driving them/applying what I have read. I dont ink pens before giving them to the recipient, and didnt know much about nibs when I made them. She seems happy, but I think about that one I made (described above), and how it improved with the minimal amount of tuning that I did.
 

GSteer

Registered
Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Posts
362
Location
Soaked Cumbria, UK
First Name
Greg
I must admit that I came to making my own pens from being a collector of fountain pens ranging from the 1920's up to modern ones, with nibs ranging from vintage flex (XF-3B) to modern nails that are rather expressionless... but there are plenty of other threads that could be written on those. The spreadsheet currently lists around 125 ignoring the ones in the repair box and around 100 bottles of ink.

Each fountain pen that has or will go out from me is fitted with a replacement nib to the customers size preference. Test written, tines adjusted (the most common fault from factory is misaligned tines), smoothed and if required tweaked a little for flow (slightly different method to Marks above but involving lifting or lowering the nib shoulders to widen or narrow the tine spacing).

Most mainstream modern basic fountain pens don't see any tuning out of the factory unfortunately. Some more expensive ones are tweaked, Pelikan, Pilot, Platinum, Edison, Conid etc but then I've some expensive ones where the nibs required hand tuning by an expert to sort them out, and at the cost of them they should have been right out of the factory.

There's a wealth of information over at FPN (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/). When it comes to a generalisation though it's 1/3rd nib, 1/3rd ink and 1/3rd paper that accounts for the full writing experience.

Now excuse me whilst I go flex a nib that lays down as much ink as a fire hose :drool:

And just because they're beautiful:

022_ink_tsuki-yo_20141109_705A6560_Web800.jpg

It's amazing how different an ink can look when used through different nibs:

005_ink_yu-yake_20141123_705A6664_Web1024_.jpg
 

Bigblackdog

Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Posts
839
Location
Leeds
First Name
Mark
i need to explore these flex nibs more. I have to admit that I had not heard of it before a few weeks ago, but writing seems to come to life with them.
 

GSteer

Registered
Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Posts
362
Location
Soaked Cumbria, UK
First Name
Greg
Unfortunately decent modern flex doesn't really exist, or compare to vintage. There are some that promote themselves as such but aren't really. The closest I've come is the now closed down brand Omas with their 14K Extra Flessible nibs, luckily I got a couple before their parent company closed them down.

Phil mentioned in a comment a while go that he was investigating a flex option and I'm interested to see what comes out of that. In the mean-time you might find one of the Bock Ti titanium nibs usable as a soft but not flexible option.
 

Phil Dart

Moderator
Executive Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Posts
5,491
Location
Colebrooke, Devon
First Name
Phil
It's nice to see pen makers thinking about the nibs they put in the front of their pens. You can turn the most beautiful pen ever seen by mankind, but if the nib is no good, then so is the pen. If anyone ever needs any help in regard to nibs, I can't promise to always have the answer, but there are a multitude of ways to get in touch to ask, including the telephone. I'm always happy to help if I can.
 

Bigblackdog

Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Posts
839
Location
Leeds
First Name
Mark
Unfortunately decent modern flex doesn't really exist, or compare to vintage. There are some that promote themselves as such but aren't really. The closest I've come is the now closed down brand Omas with their 14K Extra Flessible nibs, luckily I got a couple before their parent company closed them down.

Phil mentioned in a comment a while go that he was investigating a flex option and I'm interested to see what comes out of that. In the mean-time you might find one of the Bock Ti titanium nibs usable as a soft but not flexible option.

how about dip pens- would they produce something comparable? i am keen to have a play with something, just to see how it compares with my style of writing.
 

Penpal

Grand Master
Joined
May 26, 2013
Posts
25,342
Location
Canberra AUSTRALIA
First Name
Peter
A while back I bought a fist full of very cheap Chinese fountain pens, cheap as with incredible bodies including vitreous. I did this to take them apart for my created Ideas. I found some of them write so well, I left them intact.

These days my personal writing is more note taking, to spare everyone I use the Computer even though it can,t spell and adds letters occasionally.

How grateful I am for you Greg, Mark and Phil to share your thoughts and actions with regard to Fountain Pens.

Peter.
 

silver

General dogsbody
Executive Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Posts
6,304
Location
Somewhere in Staffordshire,
First Name
Eamonn.
Interesting thread.

I haven't done the vertex FP kit so can't answer the original question, but will be very interested in the final outcome Jim.

Alway interested in learning about nibs and what there is available on the market.

It's one area I have always been lead by the customer. Fit what they want, even using old nibs in new pens because that's the one that is "worn in" as they say. Can't argue with that.

I have had a few "lefties" that specify left hand nibs, Phil supplied my last ones:thumbs:

how about dip pens- would they produce something comparable? i am keen to have a play with something, just to see how it compares with my style of writing.

Correct me if I am wrong but I would have thought our new member Mellanie (fingwe) could help with that one Mark.
 

GSteer

Registered
Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Posts
362
Location
Soaked Cumbria, UK
First Name
Greg
how about dip pens- would they produce something comparable? i am keen to have a play with something, just to see how it compares with my style of writing.

Yes Mark they will indeed. I tend to forget that I come from the flexy fountain pen viewpoint and not just the flexible viewpoint. If you're looking at dip pens then there is a wide variety of flexible nib options available, these are what most professional caligraphers use. I hear the Zebra G nibs are good ones to start with in a decent holder.

No affiliation but as an example:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zebra-Comic-Model-Chrome-PG-6C-C-K/dp/B006CQW428


I have seen a few retro fits to fountain pens too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vgg3Pvl_Bs

Also you may want to look here for a few different options for steel 'flexible' nibs from FPR including feeds, although imo they are not actually flexible nibs due to the pressure required when writing:
http://www.fountainpenrevolution.com/nibs.html
 

fingwe

Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Posts
322
Location
Suffolk
First Name
Melanie
I've just seen this, and yes, dip pens will allow you to try a wide gamut of super flexiness! Obviously, they're not as convenient as fountain pens, but I guess nowadays serve a slightly different purpose anyway - it's mainly calligraphers using them, who significantly slow down their writing anyway, so the process of having to re-dip the nib every couple of strokes isn't too much of an issue.

There are lots of different nibs on the market - the Nikko G mentioned above is a good starting point, as is the Zebra G. Both are regarded as fairly stiff, in terms of dip pen nibs, but are much more flexible than a standard fountain pen nib. If you want to try super flexi try a Gillot 303, or Leonardt Principality (but be prepared for a learning curve, as they need the lightest of touches).

Note that not all calligraphy nibs are flexible, many for sale over here in the UK are for broad pen work (like the old gothic style). If you're looking for flexible nibs, you need to look for nibs for 'pointed pen calligraphy'. If anyone needs any more help, feel free to contact me. :winking:
 

Sgreen

Registered
Joined
Mar 12, 2015
Posts
215
Location
Sheffield
First Name
Simon
All sounds good to me, I look forward to dipping my toe into dipping pens (sorry)

How about ink for dipping pens or fountain pens. If you put cheap ink the best of nibs it feels scratchy. Any recommendations?
Are Beaufort Inks thinking of selling ink?
 

fingwe

Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Posts
322
Location
Suffolk
First Name
Melanie
Most people report that fountain pen ink isn't great for dip pens - it's a bit too thin. You could try adding a bit of gum arabic to it though, or leaving a bottle open and letting it evaporate a little. Otherwise, get an ink specifically for dip pen calligraphy, from a supplier like blotspens or scribblers. The other, much cheaper, way is to get some Vandyke Crystals and make a saturated solution...it basically makes walnut ink, which is one of the favoured inks for calligraphers ;-)
 
Warning! This thread has not had any replies for over a year. You are welcome to post a reply here, but it might be better to start a new thread (and maybe include a link to this one if you need to).
Top