Lons
Fellow
I think if that happened there would be one or two jumping on the unjustified critique Walter. Problem with that of course is it could develop into all out war as on other forums, not what we want!
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I think if that happened there would be one or two jumping on the unjustified critique Walter. Problem with that of course is it could develop into all out war as on other forums, not what we want!
Penpal
Grand Master
To clarify a feeling I have living so far away from Forum Central often I will remember how someone local (in country) has solved the problem,I refer the problem to these people (in country) I can see have really pertinant solutions.
Over here in Isolation geographically does not mean membership should be stagnant, every day there happens to be great excitement for me in pens. The stimulation I get from seeing all entries truly is wonderful. I do not keep an ideas book or follow anyones methods or disguise anything I make. Asking for details enables me to understand why, no more.
Here it is 11 pm on Tuesday the 10th over your way its nearly mid day(we are into daylight saving). While you are fully revved up I am getting sleepy so it is difficult to respond in real time. Good night.
Peter.
Over here in Isolation geographically does not mean membership should be stagnant, every day there happens to be great excitement for me in pens. The stimulation I get from seeing all entries truly is wonderful. I do not keep an ideas book or follow anyones methods or disguise anything I make. Asking for details enables me to understand why, no more.
Here it is 11 pm on Tuesday the 10th over your way its nearly mid day(we are into daylight saving). While you are fully revved up I am getting sleepy so it is difficult to respond in real time. Good night.
Peter.
bluntchisel
Registered
Often, it's not the criticism that hurts but the ignorant, scathing way that it's offered. Those sorts of comments do nothing but embarrass the pen's maker who thinks he has turned out a decent pen.
Bob.
Bob.
I would all ways invite comments its the only way to learn, I am self taught and need the seed back to help me develop, so please tell if I am doing it wrong, you will not upset me. Many thanks for all your past comments 
Critique by Internet is never going to work very well. You can't pick up the piece and handle it so you only have a couple of small pictures to try and see how good the finish is for example. Pens aren't too bad in this respect but something like a bowl or some other turning is very difficult to tell how good the piece is. You can only really comment on the overall shape.
I just like the pens i see and appreciate them
I couldn't agree more, I love looking at them and would hate to think that no one was looking at them. There is the dilemma.
If no one even comments on the pictures then how do we know if they are doing it right?
We can see when someone has looked at the threads by how many views it has had, but that then makes you think loads have seen it, there is no or very few comments so what's wrong with it ? There is the dilemma again.
Most importantly thanks for posting on here Ernie, it is appreciated as without your views we would learn nothing.
Lons
Fellow
If no one even comments on the pictures then how do we know if they are doing it right?
We can see when someone has looked at the threads by how many views it has had, but that then makes you think loads have seen it, there is no or very few comments so what's wrong with it ? There is the dilemma again.
But surely Eammon it's easy to click the like button and better than just saying "that's nice". The OP then would get exactly the same feedback including which member had pressed the button.
Any constructive comments or questions are a different matter altogether.
Walter
Fellow
I know I said I wouldn't comment further but it seems there is some misunderstanding of my original comment.
Let me clarify my opinion:
There is nothing wrong with making positive comments about a pen if you like it.
If you can see problems with a pen but the maker has not asked for comments and critique then it would be better to say nothing.
If a maker has asked for C&C and you can see defects that you could comment positively upon then it would be better to do that than just say "nice pen".
As I say, that is my opinion, If you don't like my approach then you are under no obligation to follow it, It is a suggestion, nothing more or less.
Let me clarify my opinion:
There is nothing wrong with making positive comments about a pen if you like it.
If you can see problems with a pen but the maker has not asked for comments and critique then it would be better to say nothing.
If a maker has asked for C&C and you can see defects that you could comment positively upon then it would be better to do that than just say "nice pen".
As I say, that is my opinion, If you don't like my approach then you are under no obligation to follow it, It is a suggestion, nothing more or less.
Couldn't agree more Bob, but how many even do that part. You only have to look at threads and see how many view it to see that.
This thread was started with the people like Ernie in mind, it is really great to have him as a member of this forum but it would be nice to have them taking part in the day to day threads and discussions.
Don't need to clarify for me Walter, fully understand where you are coming from.
To me the fact that Ernie had replied needed a response as he had taken the time to make a comment, if that prevokes further responses from seasoned members then that's fine.
I would agree with you on that point its seams to me sometimes the comments don't match what I am seeing in the picture
To take this to another point in site competitions I find sometimes I do not agree with the results. I did inter competitions on a different site and asked my wife who does not turn which one should win and she agreed with me. The point I am getting to is its a bit bias to ones friends comes in unintentionally. Please none take a fence to what I have said its only my opinion.
I would agree with you on that point its seams to me sometimes the comments don't match what I am seeing in the picture
I am not sure how bias can enter the competitions as nobody knows who entered what, it is as anonymous as it can be.
Peter
Ok time to dip my toe in. I understand many will see feedback as negative criticism of their work but I would like to share my story.
I am new you turning, started last February and have no formal training as yet. I posted a picture of one of my early pens and received feedback, good honest feedback. Having taken the feedback on board I improved. Further down the line another error was mentioned, one I didn't even notice. Again great feedback was given and again taken on board and on it went. I now feel I have achieved a good standard with pen turning - my finish is good (still not exactly what I want), tenon's are getting better and my transitions are, in my humble opinion, excellent. I have even sold a few pens to friends family and strangers.
Now I have gained in confidence to post pictures of my experiments with recycling wine bottles. Not so long ago I wouldn't even show them my wife. I know the turned bases are not perfect yet but they will be one day.
This forum and its members have helped me and I hope will continue to help my hobby.
Simon
I am new you turning, started last February and have no formal training as yet. I posted a picture of one of my early pens and received feedback, good honest feedback. Having taken the feedback on board I improved. Further down the line another error was mentioned, one I didn't even notice. Again great feedback was given and again taken on board and on it went. I now feel I have achieved a good standard with pen turning - my finish is good (still not exactly what I want), tenon's are getting better and my transitions are, in my humble opinion, excellent. I have even sold a few pens to friends family and strangers.
Now I have gained in confidence to post pictures of my experiments with recycling wine bottles. Not so long ago I wouldn't even show them my wife. I know the turned bases are not perfect yet but they will be one day.
This forum and its members have helped me and I hope will continue to help my hobby.
Simon
I don't think anyone is too inexperienced to pass comment on an item of work as we all have our own opinion, I have found that by passing comment as a question I have learnt more than by criticising the item.
Robin
Robin
Lons
Fellow
I think what is sometimes forgotten is that there can be a world of difference between critique which in our situation is an assessment and criticism which is finding fault.
I said in another post that before we post comments we should really ask ourselves if we would like to be on the receiving end.
I said in another post that before we post comments we should really ask ourselves if we would like to be on the receiving end.
Walter
Fellow
I agree with all of that Bob, other than to suggest that many of the misunderstandings arise through a failure to recognise that the word criticism has two distinct meanings:
1. The expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes.
synonyms: censure, reproval, condemnation, denunciation, disapproval, disparagement, opprobrium, captiousness, fault-finding, carping.
2. The analysis and judgement of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work.
synonyms: evaluation, assessment, examination, appreciation, appraisal, analysis, judgement.
Critique, as you rightly say has less scope for misinterpretion.
Penpal
Grand Master
Having mostly avoided the laughter section now I intend to avoid the in house banter between members since there is no real way of knowing if its fair dinkum or not. Put up pens is my aim.
Peter.
Peter.