Fountain pen nibs - can I have yours thoughts please?

[Phil Dart]

I'm currently looking in to stocking and/or producing fountain pen nibs to compliment our range of pen refills. I've had the occassional conversation on this forum with people who need a replacement nib for whatever reason, but I'd be grateful for your opinions please regarding what is is that people actually do want or might need, and what sort of demand you have for them.

Most pen kits come with a so called german nib with an iridium tip, which is neither german nor does it have an iridium tip. They are mostly type 5 or type 6 nibs with a 0.7mm point size, although Dans's Omegas have a point which is about 0.6mm

Is the current quality of kit nib perfectly acceptable and it's just a case of having access to spares or choice of width? Is there a demand for a better quality of nib, and is there a demand for a choice of point sizes, for example extra fine, or wide or calligraphy?

Are people confident in or willing to change a nib, or would it be better to be able to buy a complete unit including the feed and housing so you can just unscrew the old one and screw in the new one?

If you'd be kind enough to share your thoughts it would better help me know which route or routes I should be going down, if any.

Phil

 

[billyb_imp]

It is often difficult to find a quality alternative nib in the UK, there are times when if I'm wanting to produce a pen when using a premium blank like one of George's or truestone etc I often feel an upgraded nib should be considered.

It would be nice to have a choice of steel, gold & two tone in the two sizes you mention which cover most of the fountain pen kits we use.

 

[Jim]

In the near future Phil, i will be looking at making kitless pens, so of course i would be looking at nibs. As Billy says, premium blanks/kits need looking at ..

 

[flexi]

Hi Phil...i have made a no of fountain pens and most people are happy with the standard nibs,either there not aware they can be changed or not that fussy.
However i have had the odd request different nibs, to this i went to Craft Supplies and bought 2 of each no5 and no6 in ef/f/m and b this has helped and i find they are easy to change.It would be a good idea to have easy access to replacement nibs but i think this may be a slow seller for you.
Hope this helps

 

[Penpal]

Phil a can of worms in stocking nibs mate the variations in kits etc however your suggestion of nibs and fillers as a unit would appeal to would be makers of their own kit pens the idea of kitless is a play on words IMHO. Even some of my overseas friends would baulk at stocking these items for these reasons. Wish you well whichever way you travel mate your desire to help is admirable and respected by me. Another mine field is Ink.

Peter.

 

[George Watkins]

I like the bock nibs and used to swap the kit nibs for them when asked to do so.
The difference was very noticeable for me but does vary greatly depending on the persons writing style.

 

[Jimjam66]

I can't tell the difference between a well-tuned Chinese nib and a Jowo or Bock nib. But some people get hot under the collar when it comes to nibs - I put it down to snobbery but I could be wrong ...

If you are going to stock nibs, Phil, you will need to make sure that they are premium items. From that I would offer as a deduction that you should rather buy than produce. My reasoning is that if you are going to produce, (1) you'll probably get it done in China, and (2) you won't have an established brand viewed as 'premium'. Both of those being true, why swap an included Chinese IPG for YOUR Chinese IPG? One exception to this is Noodlers, but I'm not sure it would be that easy to emulate their success.

I don't think Bock have a dedicated reseller here in the UK, because I have to buy mine from Starbond-Europa who are extremely difficult to work with, So my vote would be for you to approach Bock about reselling their nibs here in the UK. But I don't doubt that they will never fly off your shelves ...

 

[chas_41_uk]

Phil. As you know I was looking for a replacement nib of a Baron recently. This is the first time I have been asked for one so didn't know where to get them from (thanks Alex for coming to the rescue).
So yes I would be interested in a UK stockist of quality nibs. I think David's idea of stocking a quality brand suck as Bock sound like a good idea.

 

[wm460]

Then you have calligraphy nibs, hundreds of types.

 

[Phil Dart]

Thanks for your thoughts so far guys, and some good points made which are well taken. A bit pressed for time right now so I'll reply in the morning if that's OK. All thoughts and opinions from anyone else will also be gratefully appreciated.

Phil

 

[Phil Dart]

Thanks for taking the trouble to respond everyone. I realise that nibs are never going to get early retirement for me - its just that I want to be able to offer them as a service, so that people have somewhere to go on the occasions when they do need a nib. On the few occasions I've needed a nib, they've always been bloody hard to find.

For the kitless or higher quality kit/blank pens, I can see that a high quality nib is required, and I can also see there is merit in having an already recognised brand such as Bock. We've also been looking at producing them under our own name, made in Europe, not China. If they were available and the quality was high, do you think there is any merit in that (David?) or do you still think that there would be an uphill struggle to get them established. (I like to think that by now the Beaufort name has a reputation for the highest quality but I fully appreciate there are more people who have never heard of us than those who have)

Is there any call at all for a "like for like" nib available as a spare? (I must say I have never needed a spare, just a different one)

In general, whether they are spares or best quality, how much call do you think there is for different finishes - Billy, you've mentioned steel, gold and two-tone. (I think more or less all kits come with two tone don't they?)

As far as the very best nibs are concerned, if you were wanting one for say a kitless pen (Jim) how does price alter your opinion? I'm not talking about profiteering here, just about paying for the very best. Would you want to pay for a "pretty good nib" or would you want to pay as much as you have to for THE creme de la creme? Where is the line drawn? (no pun intended)

Is there mileage for you as pen makers to be able to charge more for your pens with an upgraded nib, or does that fall in to the realms of "special request only"?

Phil

 

[paulm]

Phil, I would definately go for some upmarket nibs such as Bock or Jowa and would replace some but not all with better nibs. I would also like to carry different widths of nibs to give a choice.

I also would like the 3 or 4 part for kitless pen making as well but the ones that screw in not push in

 

[Phil Dart]

Do you (or does anyone) have an opinion on Bock vs JoWa Paul?

 

[ajmw89]

On an aside to fountain pen nib sizes, do you/will you be stocking different sized tips for your ink refills? I only ask, as I've got a pen in mind for one of my mates for his birthday present, but he only uses fine tipped pens. His handwriting is so small the normal medium sized pens make it indecipherable!

 

[Jimjam66]

Phil, I stand by my earlier comment that a 'Beaufort' nib would not carry the clout of a 'Bock' nib. Remember, it's my perception that the whole 'good nib' thing is driven by snobbery rather than utility, and snobbery says Bock. Make sense?

Two reasons why I would say Bock rather than Jowo - first, PeteB on this forum does Jowo so I would not want anyone muscling in on his territory, and (2) personally I think Bock nibs look the dog's danglies. They are beautifully engraved with the buck of their name and just look so yummy!

Price is interesting - firstly, for kitless I wouldn't offer anything but a 'proper' German nib, because people springing £200 for pen expect quality in the details. However, for kit pens the only reason I would swap the nib is either because the customer requests (and pays for) an upgrade, or if the customer wants something broader/thinner/italic. Again, it would be on his dollar. So really I'm a little disinterested in the price - it's being absorbed by the customer.

Finishes: Most IPGs are indeed two-tone, which is one good reason NOT to offer that finish! Bock do an 'all gold' plating by default but offer both silver and two-tone as options (retail around 12 Euros including feed and threaded housing). They also now do a titanium nib at about 60 Euros which I've never tried. Of course they also do various purities of solid gold as well as a very funky 'heartbeat' shaped ink slit at much higher prices (18k solid is around 130 Euros).

 

[Phil Dart]

Adam, I did ask the question a while ago, but there was no response whatsoever, so we did nothing about it. To make them viable, we have to produce them in quantities of at least 1000, which we'd be happy to do if the demand is there. Any refill in particular?

 

[paulm]

I agree with David and would go for the Bock but only because I've more experience with Bock and would add that where I sell two of the same pens I would change one nib to offer the 'upgrade' pen at a premium price.

 

[Phil Dart]

Phil, I stand by my earlier comment that a 'Beaufort' nib would not carry the clout of a 'Bock' nib. Remember, it's my perception that the whole 'good nib' thing is driven by snobbery rather than utility, and snobbery says Bock. Make sense?

Two reasons why I would say Bock rather than Jowo - first, PeteB on this forum does Jowo so I would not want anyone muscling in on his territory, and (2) personally I think Bock nibs look the dog's danglies. They are beautifully engraved with the buck of their name and just look so yummy!

Price is interesting - firstly, for kitless I wouldn't offer anything but a 'proper' German nib, because people springing £200 for pen expect quality in the details. However, for kit pens the only reason I would swap the nib is either because the customer requests (and pays for) an upgrade, or if the customer wants something broader/thinner/italic. Again, it would be on his dollar. So really I'm a little disinterested in the price - it's being absorbed by the customer.

Finishes: Most IPGs are indeed two-tone, which is one good reason NOT to offer that finish! Bock do an 'all gold' plating by default but offer both silver and two-tone as options (retail around 12 Euros including feed and threaded housing). They also now do a titanium nib at about 60 Euros which I've never tried. Of course they also do various purities of solid gold as well as a very funky 'heartbeat' shaped ink slit at much higher prices (18k solid is around 130 Euros).

David, every one of your points makes good sense and are well taken. Thanks very much.

I agree with David and would go for the Bock but only because I've more experience with Bock and would add that where I sell two of the same pens I would change one nib to offer the 'upgrade' pen at a premium price.

Paul, its interesting to see that you would offer upgrades alongside the standard, not just to special order.

How important is it to know that the feed and housing are made by Bock as well I wonder? Is it just the nib that's important or (quite apart from the practicalities involved) is it acceptable to put a better nib on the existing feed and housing?

 

[paulm]

Thats a good question Phil. I guess I don't really care so much about the housing and have some chinese ones that are perfectly good except they are push fit ones.

 

[silver]

Only just seen this Phil,

I agree with David (jimjam66) on the nibs front.

I have used and still do use Bock and visconti, only because I'm asked specifically to supply that nib.

Having an alternative "Baufort" nib does appeal and may give me an alternative the the IPG nibs that are not what they make out to be.

At least we could authenticate the quality of your nibs so may be worth a punt.