Fountain pen nibs - can I have yours thoughts please?

[Grump]

A very interesting thread, speaking from personal experience only. I have found the make of nib has been unnoticed by my customers.
They have however looked at the pretty patterns to decide whether it is any good before trying it.
None of them have been unhappy with the Chinese nib they have had (most if not all have said Germany on them in one shape or form).
I have only ever once been asked to supply with a spare nib and he wasn't worried which one as long as he had a spare.
I think a ready reliable source of nibs would be good for some members but how many and how often I suppose is what you're trying to discover.
I have never had to swap change or shop for a nib alone so I wouldn't rely on me as a potential customer.

 

[donwatson]

Ditto for what Grump said
I have only sold 1 fountain pen in my entire pen turning career so anything I have to say doesn't carry any weight, and I think the purchaser knew more about fountain pens than I did.

 

[paulm]

I agree with Brian and have never had to change a nib with everyone that has had a pen from me going away happy and indeed I've been using one myself for quite a long time now without a single problem but this doesn't account for the snobbery factor. Fountain pens make up about 50% of my sales and I love quality and in quality which Bock undoubtedly are, always see an opportunity to make money and extra sales so I would give my customers the choice of upgrading to a premium nib from a standard at of course a premium price. Kerching!

 

[Phil Dart]

Thanks for your continuing comments. We have been talking to Bock amongst others for the last few weeks, and it is probably Bock who would be making them for us if we went down that road. However, as has been pointed out, in having them produced in our own name we may be trying to re-invent the wheel.

The advantage of having our own name on them would be that we would have access to a greater choice of nibs, whereas perversely, Bock only make a very very limited number with their own name on, which they will only supply complete with feed and housing, which does not fit the majority of kits that pen turners buy. Great for the kitless makers but not for the kit makers. So we would need to throw away the housing and supply them from another source if they were required. Or just throw away the housing and supply the nib on its own.

They could also have no name at all, which would also improve flexibility of choice, but then there would be nothing to justify of prove that it isn't just another chinese import.

Bock seems to be the way to go judging by all the comments here, but the price we buy them for, and therefore the price we can sell them for is likely to be based on a housing which you can't use unless your pen is kitless. How does that change your opinions?

You can begin to see where some of my questions have come from. Needless to say, we are still talking to them, trying to resolve the compatibility issue.

What point sizes are of interest by the way. The more or less universal kit standard is 0.7mm which would be classed as medium. Fine, extra fine, broad, calligraphy, double line calligraphy?? How much do you think a steel nib would be called for?

Phil

 

[paulm]

Purely for commercial reasons I would only by branded nibs otherwise I might as well use the existing ones with 'Germany', 'Iridium' on it. I would buy an assortment of nibs with the majority being 0.7mm.

One thing though is how many would I buy? The majority of my customers wouldn't care what nib was in it with a few wanting to have the more expensive option. That could be as low as 5-10 per year.

 

[silver]

As per Paulm..

Volumes would be around the same as well.

As for size then Fine and extra fine is what I have had requests for.

The other one is for left handed nibs as well. Very often have to have straight nib and have it ground to suit.

 

[Phil Dart]

That is all interesting information Paul - thanks. Unbranded would never happen I think. I wouldn't expect unbranded ink refills to sell and the same goes for nibs. I was just illustrating how extraordinarily perverse Bock's sales strategy is.

Slow sales wouldn't stop me from taking them on though. The idea would be to provide a service as much as anything else, just like the kit tubes and spares we've now got. I just need to make sure I get it right though. I expect slow sales, but I don't want no sales at all because I backed the wrong horse.

Phil

 

[Phil Dart]

Sorry Eamonn, our posts must have crossed. Thanks for the info.

Left handed? New to me I'm afraid - can you explain or am I being dim?

 

[rayf6604]

Sorry Eamonn, our posts must have crossed. Thanks for the info.

Left handed? New to me I'm afraid - can you explain or am I being dim?

There's an interesting article here about lefties.

http://www.nibs.com/Left-hand writers.htm

 

[flexi]

Hi i have had a couple of left handers....most seem ok with the Omega size of nib, its when you go bigger to the Gent or Churchill that the angle seems to matter. The last one i had ground specialy lh oblique and cost me £45 which i didnt think too bad.
Good luck with all this, i would certainly have a few but as i said earlier i dont think these will be quick sellers.

 

[billyb_imp]

I would be more than happy to go with a Beaufort branded nib as long as the quality is right, there are plenty of manufacturers about who have rebranded, even Schmidt dont make there own I believe they buy from both Jawa & Bock.

We are buying into the Beaufort brand with cross, parker & rollerballs types rather than using Schmidt it isn't a big jump to do it with the nibs

 

[Phil Dart]

There's an interesting article here about lefties.

Left Handed Writers and Fountain Pens

You're right Ray, that is an interesting article. Thanks for the link

Mark, if I can get 45 quid for tuning a nib, I might be learning how to do it

 

[Phil Dart]

I would be more than happy to go with a Beaufort branded nib as long as the quality is right, there are plenty of manufacturers about who have rebranded, even Schmidt dont make there own I believe they buy from both Jawa & Bock.

We are buying into the Beaufort brand with cross, parker & rollerballs types rather than using Schmidt it isn't a big jump to do it with the nibs

That's good of you to say so Billy, and very re-assuring. Interestingly, Schmidt are another of the people we've been talking to, and in fact I've got some sample nibs from them on my desk right now. Given that I spend a great deal of my life convincing people how much better Beaufort refills are compared to Schmidt, I don't think we'll be supplying Schmidt. I'd heard too that they buy in, but I'm not convinced these samples are Bock re-brands - they're not a patch on the Bocks.

Billy, you specifically mentioned steel, as well as gold and two-tone. Is there a call for steel do you think?

 

[flexi]

I use a really nice guy in Oxford...an absolute gent and a pleasure to deal with. When i was first asked about the lefty i went online and did a bit of a search for suppliers....I was really suprised by how rude some people can be.. when i asked about replacement nibs i got...your a woodturner nah they wont fit...not what size make or font...they wont fit..after about 2 days of ringing around i found John who had time and patience and listened to what 'i wanted'
Customer service is key and i think you have that...so good luck with this Phil

 

[Jim]

Phil, i don't know what the price is for a decent Nib, i have never had the need to research this .. I am at the minute preparing myself with the right equipment to soon start making kitless pens .. But if you do start to stock them i will read what the experts on here have to say about them and direct my attention to Beaufort ..

 

[Jimjam66]

Phil, I can't see the fact that Bock supply a housing and feed as an issue. First off, the FEED fits the nib and WILL fit ina kit pen. Whether they are better than the kit item I don't know, but they look very different. So it's just the housing that raises the question. What is the price difference with/without housing?

Personally I think your biggest customers (although we are talking small numbers still) will be kit less pen makers. Kit pens tend to go with the supplied nib 99% of the time. So having the feed/housing included would be a bonus, and I can't see the price differential being that great?

Interestingly one of the reasons I don't particularly like Jowo is because their nibs are unbranded! No point getting a premium product if you can't SEE the difference, right?

 

[Phil Dart]

Customer service is key and i think you have that...so good luck with this Phil

Thanks Mark - thats really kind of you to say so.

Jim, David, as far as prices are concerned I can't tell you at the moment. It is going to depend on the price of the precious metals at the time of order, and the quantities of each type that I order. It is extremely obvious to me why Bock nibs are so difficult to buy in the UK, because Bock themselves are THE most difficult and frustrating company to deal with. Their minimum order is huge and I can't get exact prices until I give them exact quantities, and even then I won't know if I could have got a better price by ordering one more.

I'll get there, but I've had easier experiences getting stuff made in China than dealing with Bock.

 

[Phil Dart]

New question - nobody has mentioned platinum. It seems to me that if your paying top dollar for a nib you want it to be a bit more flashy than steel. Gold we all know about, but I'm assuming that any mention of steel is a colour match thing rather than a cost thing. Is the colour of the nib important I wonder. Is it worth stocking "white" nibs as well as a gold nibs? The perceived value of platinum in the pen customer's eye is very high.

 

[Grump]

I dunno about others but I was at school when they still had dip pens and ink wells in desks.
Ink monitor brings back a memory, I digress.

I started with a standard steel nib on a stick and progressed to a nib with it's own little inkwell on the back of the nib.
There was a choice for a modern child of flat broad, left or right tilt Italic once your choice was made you were stuck with it.
It was actually noted in the register whether you were left or right handed.

When we moved to Stevenage (best days work my dad ever did was getting us out of London) we had the marvellous Mentmore factory on our doorstep making Platignum pens.
Pens for all was the rule of the day with a much larger choice of nibs, the shops carried a range of nibs and the bestest most prized one was a highly decorated solid gold.
Now nothing else will do, it has to be a cartridge fill, medium fine, all that Italics is right out the winda I do joined up and scribble it with my solid gold nib.

Point of this rambling is it weren't just me, it was certainly the whole town and maybe the whole generation.
Led to believe that gold would wear quickly to your hand improving speed neatness and comfort, gold because it is the ultimate soft metal.
The finer the gold the softer it will be to write with, only the finest nibs were decorated with a filigree, the more decoration the better the quality.

That may well be a total fallacy but as I said previously I have noted people look at the nib and then chose to use it or not.
None of this affects any decision you will arrive at but does show I have given the matter some thought so if nothing else you are being provocative inti?

 

[paulm]

That's good of you to say so Billy, and very re-assuring. Interestingly, Schmidt are another of the people we've been talking to, and in fact I've got some sample nibs from them on my desk right now. Given that I spend a great deal of my life convincing people how much better Beaufort refills are compared to Schmidt, I don't think we'll be supplying Schmidt. I'd heard too that they buy in, but I'm not convinced these samples are Bock re-brands - they're not a patch on the Bocks.

Billy, you specifically mentioned steel, as well as gold and two-tone. Is there a call for steel do you think?

I'd have some steel ones Phil, I like them.