l need your Help

[Bucks]

Sorry Eamonn but Phil is spot on with what he says, I would suggest you have another word with your accountant to clarify this.

 

[Lons]

Totally agree with your comment Bob, however as it is so often difficult to put an accurate business plan together with craft sales, especially when I was personally waiting for treatment then a full year may well not have been possible anyway.

You don't need a full year Eamonn just a start date and then choose your accounting dates to suit yourself though often for ease of tying it in with other income like pensions and savings interest etc. it's often the same as tax return dates that are used. I started my business mid January but changed my dates to July 1st for personal reasons so less than 6 months trading in the first year. You can also change those dates at a later stage though I can't remember the restrictions on how often you can do that. There are certain instances when that could be useful.

My advice to anyone would be to always formulate a detailed business plan which is a working document and continually evolving as the business changes, it's not difficult, just a list of facts and aspirations based on ideas and extensive research however...it is not compulsory and any business can be started without one, just imho it's more likely to fail!

Where a good business plan really comes into it's own is if you need funds, especially from banks who view the lack of one as being a very poor risk.

Anyway I'm certain you already know all that, I'm just posting for others who may not.

cheers

 

[Bill Mooney]

I worked asa sole trader in my joinery business for 21 years & never registered with Company’s House. I was advised I only needed to register if I went as a limited company. I had a friendly accountant who audited my books annually & did my tax return & never ad a problem on that score. I did work in schools & other public buildings & had to up my public liability from £2 million to £10 million.

 

[wm460]

Best of luck in your new venture cowboy.

 

[silver]

[MENTION=735]Phil Dart[/MENTION]
While I totally agree with your statement Phil

But on the eyes of legality a person that is not registered as a sole trader is not recognised as a sole trader
They are a person that is self employed.

I know it’s only a play on words but trust me I have dealt with many a self employed persons much the same person as Bill over 40 years.

If I declared to a company that I was a sole trader they could be mislead in to believing that I am registered as a sole trader.

I agree with your terminology but it’s all about clarity of making sure who you are dealing with in contact terms that they know if you are a registered as a sole trader or not.

I know some companies that won’t deal with you unless you are registered as they need to understand that who they are dealing with are paying their taxes correctly and everything is above board.

That’s my experience and just wanted to make sure that if you call yourself a “sole trader” then it could be misconstrued and assumed you are registered as such.

It may be a play in words to some but it matters to whoever is employing you at the time.

 

[Phil Dart]

Eamonn, either your accountant has given you poor information or you have mis-interpreted what he has told you. Either way, your statement is incorrect I'm afraid.

The chippy, the sparky, the bricky, the author, the consultant, the pen maker, the wedding photographer, the anything else you care to mention - if they are self employed and trade on their own, they are by extension, sole traders. They pay tax, they file returns. When you as self emplyed, HMRC's only distinction is are you a limited company? No. Are you a partnership? No. Fine, you are a sole trader.

It is a definition Eamonn, it is not some other sort of legal entity that might be distinct from a self employed person. I can quite see why you might feel the JK Rowling is self employed and not a sole trader - she's probably neither in fact but if she were one she would be the other too. It has implications as far as running a business and paying tax is concerned, which is distinct from those for running a business as a partnership for instance, but I assure you that someone trading on their own is by definition a sole trader.

 

[silver]

[MENTION=735]Phil Dart[/MENTION]

No one has given me duff info Phil or have interpreted in any such way.

I totally agree with your statement and know that your terminology is correct.

But all I am saying is the misinterpretation of such can be easy if you are not registered as a sole trader.

That is all I am saying. It can be misconstrued as to believe you are registered as a sole trader

I fully understand that in its nature trading as one is a sole trader.

But I know companies that won’t accept you and would consider that they had been mislead if you had declared yourself as a sole trader but not registered as one.


It’s probaly down to terminology and simply it’s are you a registered sole trader ?

In my industry it was simply a fact that if you are not registered then you was classed as a self employed.

That’s all I’m saying.

I think we should agree to disagree with that that point.

 

[Phil Dart]

I think we should agree to disagree with that that point.

A link you may find interesting. One of any number available on the net.

What is the difference between self-employed and sole trader?

The summary at the end says
"To sum up, there’s not really a difference between being a sole trader and being self-employed. ‘Sole trader’ describes your business structure, while ‘self-employed’ is a way of saying that you don’t work for an employer or pay tax through PAYE. Both terms are usually applicable: if you’re self-employed then you’re basically running a business as a sole trader, whether you think of yourself as a business owner or not!"

It is possible I suppose that people in your past experience were asking about being registered as a sole trader, whereas they could just as easily have asked about being registered as self-employed. Yes, I'm happy to agree to disagree.

 

[Lons]

( But I know companies that won’t accept you and would consider that they had been mislead if you had declared yourself as a sole trader but not registered as one. )

.
I agree that it can be seen as a play on words but the key word here is "registered"
That word is not applicable as you have absolutely no need to register with anyone. All you are doing is notifying HRMC for tax purposes, nothing else.

 

[Bammer]

Ok Ok Ok ..... Now I'm confused or did I miss it ?

Who the hell on the forum is a cobbler selling new soles ?????

 

[Bill Mooney]

I’ve looked on the government web site under sole trader & it doesn’t say you have to register with Companies House, only with the tax office for self assessment. You also have to register for NI contributions.
As an owner of a limited company you have to register with Companies House as business owner & employee of your company & not a sole trader. It can be a bit of a minefield.
When I took my grandson & another lad on as apprentices things changed as my business then came under HSE regulations with visits from the factories inspector to check my premises & equipment, a different ball game again, more paperwork. Notices all over the premises etc.

 

[Lons]

.
By co-incidence I came across this today on another forum. Working for yourself - GOV.UK which states:
.

If you start working for yourself, you’re classed as a sole trader. This means you’re self-employed - even if you haven’t yet told HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).

You're still allowed to earn £1000 from a hobby or trading without tax penalty even if paying tax from paid employment, until they change the rules again of course.