Making a pen from scratch

[Jimjam66]

My reference The Pen Turners Bible By Richard Kleinhenz covers this over here access to this book is great over your way check out our resident authors book or seek his reference. Be prepared to outlay a lot on the search for and making of.

Peter.

Yup - first class work from a first class pen maker. Well worth the read.

Inkyfingers,
Is that the standard BSP taps and dies you are using ?
I was thinking of using them as they are quite a fine thread, the 1/8th BSP is about 3/8" dia and has 28 TPI, and the 1/4 BSP is about 1/2" and has 19 TPI.I should have some of those sitting in a toolbox somewhere.

Is there an English version of this available? It's all Dutch to me...

I need to do a bit more reading!!

Yeah, me too. Gotta say even on IAP they talk metric thread sizes. The most common size threads are M9 or M10 barrel to grip/section, and M12/M14 barrel to cap. A chap who posts under the name of watchart on IAP (his real name is Sean Newton if my dodgy memory suffices) has a very (deceptively) simple tutorial on making a kitless pen. It's just about all you need.

There's a lot of to'ing and fro'ing about multi-start threads - all I can say is I sell my kitless pens for £200 apiece, have a full order book (at my glacial production pace) and have never owned a multi-start tap or die. The rest is up to you.

 

[InkyFingers]

Hi All,

I use a metalwork lathe (ML7) because it was given to me by my father when he realised that he wasn't strong enough to use it himself. It's much bigger than you need but it's what I've got. The main advantage is that you can get parallel cuts with minimal effort. On a woodworking lathe it has be done by eye and caliper and I'm not good enough to do that yet. I polish on the wood working lathe because it can run at a much higher rpm.

I use BSB (British Standard Brass), again because they were given to me. IAP talk of metric threads and I would have use them if I had them. BSB are 26 tpi (0.97mm) against 0.75mm which seems to metric pitch preferred by IAP. Chronos do bsb taps in carbon at about £3 and tap-die do HQS at about £11 each, you will need a taper and plug. I can't say how good HSS is over carbon because I only have hss. Tracy tools do the metric ones suggested on IAP. I think hss are about £15/18 each so about £45/54 for each size (taper, plug and die). That's why I used what I had.

Don't forget tapping drills. The recommended drill for 1/2" BSB is 29/64".

The other tool I find invaluable is a digital caliper.

kjmc1957: Is there an English version of this available? It's all Dutch to me...
These are the glorious old school English threads. As I recall BSP size are defined by the internal size of the pipe but threads are the OD.

Another thing I find useful is ER32 collets. These are great for holding with minimal damage to the work, also the chucks I have are worn and if I remove a workpiece and replace it, it never runs exactly true.

The point about 3 blanks per pen it based on me having issues and breaking the parts. The usual one is cutting the threads on the section. I drilled first but found that this weakened it so sometime I needed 3 attempts to get it right. Also shaping it sometimes wrote it off. With no issue you should be able to get a pan out of two blanks.

Inky

 

[Penpal]

Wow further help and knowledge thanks guys most I understand I sympathise with using chucks and they do vary the collets are great and serve me well. On the U Beaut site there will be in the library under Big Shed a device he made to fit on his lathe that on one end holds the die on a stem to assist external threads and a tap holder on the other end for cutting internal threads develoed for this purpose especially he is a beaut guy lives in Victoria.This allows hand cutting threads which as you know are not difficult but are delicate so every thing to take away innaccuracies is welcome in my world, the normal holder for button dies was an exercise in metal working as part of trade couses over here years ago.It is a morse taper then straight shaft with a knurledholder that you fit the die into one end his device allows the addition of a tap holder in place of the die holder as well.

Have fun..Peter.

 

[Jimjam66]

Inky: Sorry mate, that wasn't a criticism. It's just that where I grew up (SA) we metricated before I was born and even though I've been back here 15 years this whole imperial thing is voodoo to me. ESPECIALLY because a 1/8" BSP is NOWHERE NEAR 1/8" in diameter!!!! WTF ...?

And yes, although I don't yet own an ER32 collet chuck and collets I would dearly love one - scroll chucks are inconsistent when it comes to concentricity.

 

[InkyFingers]

Inky: Sorry mate, that wasn't a criticism. It's just that where I grew up (SA) we metricated before I was born and even though I've been back here 15 years this whole imperial thing is voodoo to me. ESPECIALLY because a 1/8" BSP is NOWHERE NEAR 1/8" in diameter!!!! WTF ...?

And yes, although I don't yet own an ER32 collet chuck and collets I would dearly love one - scroll chucks are inconsistent when it comes to concentricity.

No criticism read into it. I found the whole bsp thing confusing when I had to connect up a air brush last year and I had to find out about BSP.

I suppose I was lucky being taught in English unit. I can remember doing calculations in miles, furlongs, chains, yards feet inches etc. Even now I have to cross the bridge at work when I design PCBs, mils (thou) and mm are common units.


Do you have photo's of your pens in the public domain so I can see what a £200 one looks like. At the moment I would not want to sell mine because the quality is not up to my standards let alone a discerning buyer.


CheersA

Inky

 

[Jimjam66]

Do you have photo's of your pens in the public domain so I can see what a £200 one looks like. At the moment I would not want to sell mine because the quality is not up to my standards let alone a discerning buyer.

This is one of the early production units. The box is included for an extra tenner - I try to cut the wood for pen and box from the same billet.

Having seen your kitless pens I have no doubt that you would sell them - just be aware that selling a £200 kitless is not the same as selling a £12.50 slimline. You are looking for someone who loves pens and writing (and fountain pens) and who is either well-heeled or has a significant other looking for a unique gift. I sell about six of these a year, which is just about what I can produce as a hobby with two young'uns and not the best of health. It pays for a fair few toys for the workshop, though!

 

[Jimjam66]

It's also worth mentioning (although I think you have this covered) that to sell fountain pens you have to know their lingo. Most fountain pen addicts are very knoweldgeable on their subject and can be quite challenging! So nib tuning, ink viscosity, feed configuration, IPG, sacs, filling mechanisms, southpaw nibs, ... You need ready answers to the lot. Spend a few days on fountain pen network to see the kinds of topics you will need to brush up on.

 

[Penpal]

David tech speak as you point out people like to know and feel relaxed when you have the key to questions.

Peter.

 

[InkyFingers]

It's also worth mentioning (although I think you have this covered) that to sell fountain pens you have to know their lingo. Most fountain pen addicts are very knoweldgeable on their subject and can be quite challenging! So nib tuning, ink viscosity, feed configuration, IPG, sacs, filling mechanisms, southpaw nibs, ... You need ready answers to the lot. Spend a few days on fountain pen network to see the kinds of topics you will need to brush up on.

Thanks for the link, it's a great looking pen.


I look at fountain pen network regularly and drool over the pens they show there. I've loved and used fountains pens since school and always wanted a Duofold International but since making some myself I just want to make the pens myself.

Many thanks for the comments regarding the first pen I made. Each of the pens I've made have a different fault, if I'd made them from the same material I could have one really good one now. I did promise to share some info on making them but I'm waiting until I'm confident in the methods I use.

Sorry to here about you health. My little'ns have flown (well nearly, one flies back on Monday for a few months) so I only have house restoration and work to contend with.

Cheers

Inky

 

[donwatson]

Thanks for the information inkyfingers. And a big thanks for the info. on suppliers of taps/dies.

 

[Grump]

I have read this thread with great interest and it has been sometime since I dealt with threads so I stand to be corrected.

I believe (if I remember rightly) the BSP = British Standard Pipe threads were measured for the internal diameter for the the pipe, (the pipe that was to fit inside).
I also think the 27° or 0.75mm pitch is only a preference for the three thread start, so the other two can be laid on the first thread, supposedly for strength over a short length 3-5mm which I think is bollocks personally.
A single thread is to me more aesthetically pleasing and lines up to the same point whereas a triple start can end up looking awful when screwed on.

I followed this guide when I first did a triple lead thread and was successful on the external thread but gave up on the internal.
Skiprat is one of my penturning hero's, Inspired by his work made me take up this costly hobby, I was pleased to discover that we agreed on this point.

Here is some explanation of thread cutting, I found to be useful, It may help some of those reading and not understanding.

To sum up I think taps and dies are the way to go with pen thread cutting, to give repeatable results and save time setting up machinery.

Repeating myself from previous posts "THERE ARE NO RULES" if it looks right to you then it is how it is meant to be.
The ones I have done have been made with standard fine thread metric taps and dies and worked very well without spending fortunes.

 

[kjmc1957]

WOW

I seemed to have hit on a lot of secret ambitions. It seems to me that we may need a sub division of the forum quite soon!!!!

I think I'm going to give it a go with a single thread as Grump states (I think this is what he meant) when you re-cap the pen it lines up the way it was meant to every time.

I haven't got my Pen Makers Bible yet...maybe Amazon decided on City Link as a carrier!!!!

 

[Walter]

Here is some explanation of thread cutting, I found to be useful,

Thanks for that link Brian. A useful reference.

 

[trapper]

Most of my pens are scratch built including the finials waist bands etc, the clips i do buy in although sometimes make them from copper or aluminium wire.For ball points I tend to use cross mechanisms and refills. I'd suggest starting with this style of pen before progressing to body and cap designs if I can help give me a shout I've been off the lathe for a while so need some projects to get going following illness

 

[trapper]

I also use NPT as well as BSP threads, I have tried BA and model engineering threads etc for smaller components the thing to remember is that triple starts simply reduce the length of the threaded portion to provide equal tightness when closed also dies fr triple starts are extremely expensive here in the UK but can be sourced stateside. Also you need to be aware of thread depth especially if threading thin plastic sections.

 

[kjmc1957]

Hi Trapper

For me you have hit the nail right on the head, the depth of the thread issue, if I want to have say a 13mm internal tube diameter , I understand that following on from the tapping procedure I'm still left with a 13 mm tube with a thread cut in it, however do I then have to have a tube to go in this that is 12.75mm plus the depth of the thread so that they mate properly or am I missing something obvious. If this is the case then I understand it.
So in practice drill and tap the tubes first because they are dictated by the drill size and then turn the inserts to fit is that it? or am I really being a Richard Cranium here?


Could some of you better informed engineering trained turners suggest a tap and die set that would suit my needs, I'm going to stick with a single twist to maintain the alignment and will only be turning either acrylic or wood.

 

[Twister]

Hi Trapper

For me you have hit the nail right on the head, the depth of the thread issue, if I want to have say a 13mm internal tube diameter , I understand that following on from the tapping procedure I'm still left with a 13 mm tube with a thread cut in it, however do I then have to have a tube to go in this that is 12.75mm plus the depth of the thread so that they mate properly or am I missing something obvious. If this is the case then I understand it.
So in practice drill and tap the tubes first because they are dictated by the drill size and then turn the inserts to fit is that it? or am I really being a Richard Cranium here?


Could some of you better informed engineering trained turners suggest a tap and die set that would suit my needs, I'm going to stick with a single twist to maintain the alignment and will only be turning either acrylic or wood.

I bet a picture would be helpful
I glad i not only one that cant get head around it

maybe its the medication

Steve

 

[Penpal]

Most of my pens are scratch built including the finials waist bands etc, the clips i do buy in although sometimes make them from copper or aluminium wire.For ball points I tend to use cross mechanisms and refills. I'd suggest starting with this style of pen before progressing to body and cap designs if I can help give me a shout I've been off the lathe for a while so need some projects to get going following illness

Like to see pics of these mate?

Peter.

 

[InkyFingers]

Hi Trapper

For me you have hit the nail right on the head, the depth of the thread issue, if I want to have say a 13mm internal tube diameter , I understand that following on from the tapping procedure I'm still left with a 13 mm tube with a thread cut in it, however do I then have to have a tube to go in this that is 12.75mm plus the depth of the thread so that they mate properly or am I missing something obvious. If this is the case then I understand it.
So in practice drill and tap the tubes first because they are dictated by the drill size and then turn the inserts to fit is that it? or am I really being a Richard Cranium here?


Could some of you better informed engineering trained turners suggest a tap and die set that would suit my needs, I'm going to stick with a single twist to maintain the alignment and will only be turning either acrylic or wood.

Don't have any pics but:

If you cut an internal thread then the internal dia of the tube will be the tapping size for the thread. The mating part that threads into it will need to be the OD of the thread.

So if the thread depth is 0.5mm then you drill a 12.5 mm hole for a 13mm thread. You tap a 13mm OD rod with the same thread. Note these dimensions are a guide' each thread has its own specific tapping sizes.

So when you use a 13mm internal thread you can assume that the threads reach to 13mm dia inside the wall.

When you cut the external threads, the tapping size for that thread will determine the diameter at the bottom of the threads.

I use a 3/8" inside a 1/2" for the section to barrel. That gives me 1/4" ie 1/8" or 3mm thick walls for the external threads to cut into. Note the internal of the 3/8 will be the tapping size.

In terms of recommendations it's a little of whatever you want as Grump says but in effect (converting from English/imperial to metric) I use 12.5mmx26 for the cap to barrel and 9.5mmx26 for the section to barrel. So 12mm and 9mm would be a good match but check.

Edit: The thread pitch will be selected on appearance but 12 x 0.5mm seems popular for the cap to barrel. The section to barrel won't be seen so its not so important but watch the depth.

I have typically used an OD of approx 15mm for the cap.


Does this help.

Cheers

Inky

 

[bellringer]

The way to work tapping drill it thread diameter minus pitch