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Tried using CA and made a mess!

Lons

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Seeing all your shiny pens "forced" me into having a go with this CA stuff tonight and all I ended up with was a gooey mess and half a wrecked pen blank.
Serves me right as I tried it on a blank that I'd turned down as thin as possible whereas a thicker one would have given me some leeway for recovery.

I used the Mitre type glue I have in the cupboard (a bit younger than the friction polish as it's 2013 stuff). It seemed a bit thick though. I put on several coats each with a small spray of activator betwwen but it looked horrible so I let it dry and tried to take it off with 500g paper. It left white blotches and I sanded to the tube on one half to get it out. I recovered the tube so not lost but will try again, only after more research, on a thicker bit of timber next time.

Apart from CA, is there anything an inexperienced newbie like me can buy which will give me a decent gloss without too much trouble?

Bob
 

yorkshireman

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I won't touch CA Bob. After talking to Neil at a show he was at I sand to 600 then use EEE then 2 coats of shellawax (Neil only uses 1) then sometimes I put a final coat of renaissance wax although its not really necessary.

keith
 

Lons

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Thanks Ed

I'll need to watch it a couple of times though as I'm sure the old brain cells are dying:whistling:

Bob
 

Jim

Grand Master
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Oct 19, 2011
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You can get a good finish Lons using the friction polish lightly, finished with a wax of your choice ... :bwink:
 

Grump

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Just a quick squirt will seal the pen, leave it to dry about 30 secs then apply another quick squirt to start building your shine.
A rub down between coats if so desired the more coats the longer the drying time between coats.
2 or 3 quick squirts is usually plenty, a bit of 600 - 1000 grit between coats you will be surprised at the finish you have.
Any car body clear lacquer will do a nice job this one happens to be cheap.
 

Lons

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Just a quick squirt will seal the pen, leave it to dry about 30 secs then apply another quick squirt to start building your shine.
A rub down between coats if so desired the more coats the longer the drying time between coats.
2 or 3 quick squirts is usually plenty, a bit of 600 - 1000 grit between coats you will be surprised at the finish you have.
Any car body clear lacquer will do a nice job this one happens to be cheap.

Ta for that, will give it a try.

:thinks: Just thought I have some alloy wheel sealer thats laquer. I wonder if that'll work - maybe a test on some scrap coming on.

Bob
 

paulm

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I use ca and use wet and dry at 1200 in between coats and finish with a burnishing cream.
 

fionaspens

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Oct 31, 2013
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98
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Northumberland
Hi Bob, There are numerous ca techniques on You Tube (some simple / some complicated). The decision to move to a ca finish was made for us. Andrew used to work at Newcastle Dental Hospital and as a result a significant number of our pens go to doctors, dentists and nurses. We found out very quickly that pens finished with wax looked nice on the day of sale but after several weeks became dull and lifeless. The wax surface couldn't withstand the hospital enviroment and we identified the use of bactericidal hand gels and scrubs to be the cause of the problem. After a bit of experimentation we found a ca finish to be more durable and have had no complaints since.

The video above makes it look so easy and some people may find it works for them. However, when I tried it the paper towel got stuck to the blank and the ca glue spun off onto my jumper. A note of caution always use a visor or goggles (full eye protection) when using ca. Some use protective glasses but even with these on accidents happen. Trust me on this one, I've seen several people in Accident & Emergency with ca glue in the eye over the years. Google search ca glue eye accidents and once you've seen the pictures you'll never touch ca without eye protection again.

Our technique for the inlays is as follows:
a) finish wood with a chisel - we don't sand as the dust / debris from the dark coloured woods discolours the light coloured woods.
b) set the lathe at the lowest setting (we have a Jet mini lathe which requires the drive belt to be moved by hand - I'm not sure what the exact speed is but I can find out if you want more detail)
c) apply medium ca glue on piece of cheap white kitchen roll (avoid colours they can come out / also avoid loo paper it breaks down and bits go everywhere!!!!)
d) two or three drops is all that's needed - drop on the paper - folded as in the above video - wipe lightly up and down your blank 2-3 times only as quick as you can (dilly dally and it will go off and stick the paper to the blank yuk!!)
e) keep the blank turning and spray with ca accelerator (idealy you should have suction behind the lathe for this unless you want to get high as a kite)
f) wipe off excess with a fresh piece off kitchen roll (this can be used again for the same job later)
g) apply second coat and then repeat use of accelerator and excess removal (the use of accelerator is not strictly necessary if you are prepared to wait for it to dry - we use it after messing up several blanks as a result of being impatient)
h) repeat again, ca, accelerator, wipe (depending on the wood porosity - sometimes only 3 coats are necessary other times 6 or 8 coats may be needed).
i) stop lathe - remove blanks - remove any flash with sandpaper 300 grit - remount on mandrel after cleaning up bushings
j) sand with micromesh and finish with plastic polishing paste (we use micromesh wet - don't leave your micromesh pads in water longterm as the abrasive cloth comes off the white backing material otherwise)
k) buff up on a slowly rotating cotton buffing wheel (the type your dentist polishes dentures with)

Apologies for the lengthy explanation - we do modify the above for certain woods and use linsead oil - normally for very porous wood which absorbs the ca like a sponge (eg spalted beech) three drops of linsead plus one drop of ca glue in the middle of the three. (application of this mix takes longer to set and gives you more time to apply). The only other point I would like to mention is that sometimes with dyed woods the colour will run when ca or linsead is applied on a turning lathe. Andrew's technique in these cases is to take a plastic lid from an ice cream tub, run a wooden kebab stick through the brass tube and drip thin ca onto the wood surface. Rotate the blank using the kebab stick as you do so, and use the lid to catch the drips. Once covered roll gently in the ca glue caught in the lid, adding a little extra if needed - allow to set naturally (we avoid accelerator here as there's lots of ca around and it gets hot when accelerator is applied) You'll need to sand the blank smooth with 300 grit at a faster speed (avoid exposing the wood surface) then finish with micromesh and polishing paste etc at slow speed.

Hope this helps these techniques work for us - others may suggest alternatives experiment till you find what works best in your hands. Kind regards. Fiona
 

stevenw1963

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Bob,

I don't do CA either, messy smelly stuff bad for your health.
I use the same as Grump, spray lacquer of whatever I find in the shed plus Chestnuts Acrylic spray lacquer. I found a tin of Ford's Klearcote Lacquer the other day, gave off a lovely shine when dry. Obviously depending on which one you use will determine how long it takes to harden properly. I have some Halfrauds lacquer which aint bad either (all remnants of when I used to tart up the sprogs' cars).
I have the lather turning very slowly (variable speed means very slow) and just a couple of short squirts, don't be temped to keep spraying, it'll run like a good un and cause more problems. Short squirts, let it dry (a halogen heater is good for helping it dry) sand lightly, squirt again.
 

Jimjam66

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I use CA exclusively, and I like Fiona's process - not too different to my own. I don't use BLO anymore as it tends to yellow the wood and when the CA does go off it cooks - no problem for the blank but if you have any on your finger you will get blisters. I have recently switched from the thicker mitre glue to the very watery stuff Poundland sell at four bottles for a quid. The finish I am getting with that is like glass.

Just a warning - accelerator can cause the glue to set too quickly and it will 'boil' - going cloudy and milky in the process. So if you are going to use accelerator: spray from a distance, be sparing and watch the finish closely - any clouding must be sanded off immediately or else the next layer of finish will seal it in. I tend to wait a minute or so after applying the finish before spraying which helps me.

One last thing - CA finishes are heat sensitive so if you take sandpaper to a finished blank and don't watch the heat buildup you will ruin the finish. I sand wet after applying anything up to 12 coats of CA BUT ... water will cause the CA to boil if it hasn't gone off yet! So make sure the CA is dry and set before wet sanding. And DON'T be tempted to wet sand between coats - the slightest smell of moisture will set off the next coat. Between coats must be done dry and carefully so as not to overheat the finish. I very rarely sand between coats - usually only if I have had to fill an irregularity with thicker CA and it has left a raised lump. Choose a higher grade of paper than your instincts tell you - I only ever use 600 grit between coats, I can always go down to 400 if the lump is being stubborn but I hardly ever have to.
 

Lons

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WOW

For once I'm almost speechless.

In addition to all the advice I've received and some in depth instruction posts I've now had offers of a practical demo from Walter and also Andrew and Fiona.

This is definitely the friendliest and most helpful forum I've ever come across. Thanks to all just doesn't seem enough to say somehow :claps:

Even Mr Grumpy has a soft centre I think (I bet he denies that:winking:)

Bob
 

paulm

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You're not the only one to learn from this thread Bob, I've been using ca for a long time and tried a different method today for the first time and think its quicker, easier and better than my method. I also finished with car wax instead of burnishing cream... I'll be using the same method from now on.
 

Lons

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Bob
You're not the only one to learn from this thread Bob, I've been using ca for a long time and tried a different method today for the first time and think its quicker, easier and better than my method. I also finished with car wax instead of burnishing cream... I'll be using the same method from now on.

What type of car wax did you use Paul? I have about 10 different types at least from simple paste / liquid canuba to sealants like diamondbrite and Mer (don't ask)!

Bob
 
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