Achieving success with melamine as a finish

[Phil Dart]

I've been asked countless times to explain my method for using melamine, and in the light of another discussion in the last day or two, I've finally made time to write it down.

It's a very quick process to apply the stuff, but as I discovered, to explain it in writing is anything but quick, and as a result the tutorial stretches to more than would be appropriate to post here in a thread. Therefore I've created a pdf file which you are welcome to download. To my shame, I still haven't learned how to add files to the Tutorials section - I'll have to ask Jim for some guidance in that department - so in the meantime, the file is attached to the back end of my own website.

The link is Acheiving success with melamine as a finish which will simply open a pdf document on your screen.

I'm more than happy to enter into discussion about it and to answer questions, but it is not intended to spark another debate as to the suitability of melamine versus other finishes. It is merely a “how to” in the event that you decide to try it. Discussions on the why’s and wherefores of various pen finishes are plentiful elsewhere on the forum, so if you wish to enter that debate, please find an appropriate thread and do so there rather than here.

I hope it's of use to some people.

 

[billyb_imp]

This is a most welcome tutorial Phil, thanks for sharing. I changed over to melamine finishes on my wood pens towards the end of last year and although reasonably happy with the results I feel there is still room for improvement so I will spend a good bit of time going through it, comparing it with my method and considering a tweak or two.

Hopefully we will see some better results in the "Show off your finished pens thread - wooden pens"

 

[Treeesa]

Only just getting to grips with melamine Phil and now you come with Malamine its that seductive text on your phone

 

[fortress]

Thanks for that Phil, It's kind of you to take the time and trouble. I will read, then try Myself.

 

[Phil Dart]

Only just getting to grips with melamine Phil and now you come with Malamine its that seductive text on your phone

Damn. damn, damn! Thank goodness for the admin edit button eh?

 

[webby962]

Thanks Phil
Gonna give that a go... cheers

 

[Vic Perrin]

Cheers Phil a great tutorial. Just checked what I have in the cupboard and I have some Chestnut Water Based Melomine Acrylic laquer is this the stuff I need

 

[yorkshireman]

Thanks for that Phil, pretty much what I did today but didn't have any sanding sealer. I've glued up some spalted apple which is very porous so I'll have a stab at that in the next couple of days.

 

[Phil Dart]

Cheers Phil a great tutorial. Just checked what I have in the cupboard and I have some Chestnut Water Based Melomine Acrylic laquer is this the stuff I need

The acrylic stuff, as you've already mentioned, is water based, I may be wrong but I'm pretty certain you have to use an acrylic sanding sealer too. I'm not sure that it's compatible with the cellulose stuff. The problem with water based finishes and sealers is that they raise the grain. Their main purpose is for use over the top of anything spirit based, such as line drawn picture, or staining, where to use a cellulose sealer or finish would remove the spirit based stuff underneath. In all honesty, although I have spray can of it, rather than a tin, I've never experimented with it on pens because of the fact that it's water based and also the drying time is longer.

 

[L33]

Wow...that's some write up. Very nice job. Could I ask a couple of questions and see if you may know the answers?

You mentioned about some woods not being great for absorbing the melamine. I mainly use Olivewood. In your experience, how does that fair in relation to absorbency?

Is there a risk of scratching the wood when burnishing with the shavings...and can any shavings do? Obviously if I'm making a single pen there aren't enough shaving...especially as my extractor is pretty good. However, there is a fair amount on the floor from roughing out another job.

When burnishing the sealer...are you using a clean dry part of the tissue?

Thanks in advance Phil...really informative write up and I've got 3 blanks ready for a finish tomorrow so really looking forward to following your methods. I had another go today so it's helped me to understand your method a little bit better. It was nice not to be blasted by CA fumes and also not feel rushed...but I still wear a mask just in case.

Ps...did my email reach you in one piece? I've been having problems sending emails so I'm double checking everyone I've sent emails too these last few days.

 

[Phil Dart]

Wow...that's some write up. Very nice job. Could I ask a couple of questions and see if you may know the answers?

You mentioned about some woods not being great for absorbing the melamine. I mainly use Olivewood. In your experience, how does that fair in relation to absorbency?

Thanks for your comments Lee. As you will know, olivewood can vary enormously in regard to its absorbancy. In the main though, it is fairly hard and non-absorbent. If you are unsure about just how absorbent it is, after initial sanding with your coarsest grit, stop the lathe and brush on some dilute sanding sealer to see how much it soaks in. Wipe it off straight a way and see what you are left with. Of it soaks in completely, even only just in certain places, re-apply and wipe. Keep doing it until it no longer soaks in. If you have to stabilise in that way, you will also need to apply sealer between every grit. A lot of turners seal between grits as a matter of course anyway, which can only be beneficial.

Olivewood is quite oily though, so after you've burnishing with the shavings and before you apply your pre-melamine sealer, give the wood a thorough clean using meths on some clean tissue, both with the lathe running, and along the grain with the lathe stopped.

Having said all that, if you have a good, hard, dense non-absorbent piece in the lathe, it may well be a candidate for not applying a chemical finish at all. Just sand it to a fine grit, burnish with the shavings (don't clean it with meths) then buff to a shine, (LOL - you're allowed to buff in this instance), perhaps with a topcoat of microcrystalline or carnauba . Ultimately though, I'm afraid there is no substitute for experience when it comes to judging what route to go down.

Is there a risk of scratching the wood when burnishing with the shavings...and can any shavings do? Obviously if I'm making a single pen there aren't enough shaving...especially as my extractor is pretty good. However, there is a fair amount on the floor from roughing out another job.

Ideally you should be using the same shavings as the wood you are working, but theoretically, any shavings would do as long as they are not harder than the wood you are working, and as long as there is no risk of colour contamination, or contamination by other means, such as shavings from an oily wood being used on wood that is not oily. Shavings from a wood that is harder runs the risk if scratching the work - softer shavings will not yield quite so good a result, so try to use the same shavings as the wood you are working.

I keep a little plastic tub handy (in fact a food container from my local Indian Takeaway), in which I collect a reserve supply of shavings. Whenever you get some spare olivewood shavings gathering on the lathe, collect it up and keep it in your container, for the times when you don't have enough. I would much prefer to do that than use the stuff on the floor, or risk random shavings from other work that I'm not sure about.

When burnishing the sealer...are you using a clean dry part of the tissue?

Yes, it's crucial to always use dry tissue for burnishing.

Ps...did my email reach you in one piece? I've been having problems sending emails so I'm double checking everyone I've sent emails too these last few days.

No, sorry. I've not received an email or PM from you recently.

 

[L33]

Thanks for your comments Lee. As you will know, olivewood can vary enormously in regard to its absorbancy. In the main though, it is fairly hard and non-absorbent. If you are unsure about just how absorbent it is, after initial sanding with your coarsest grit, stop the lathe and brush on some dilute sanding sealer to see how much it soaks in. Wipe it off straight a way and see what you are left with. Of it soaks in completely, even only just in certain places, re-apply and wipe. Keep doing it until it no longer soaks in. If you have to stabilise in that way, you will also need to apply sealer between every grit. A lot of turners seal between grits as a matter of course anyway, which can only be beneficial.

Olivewood is quite oily though, so after you've burnishing with the shavings and before you apply your pre-melamine sealer, give the wood a thorough clean using meths on some clean tissue, both with the lathe running, and along the grain with the lathe stopped.

Having said all that, if you have a good, hard, dense non-absorbent piece in the lathe, it may well be a candidate for not applying a chemical finish at all. Just sand it to a fine grit, burnish with the shavings (don't clean it with meths) then buff to a shine, (LOL - you're allowed to buff in this instance), perhaps with a topcoat of microcrystalline or carnauba . Ultimately though, I'm afraid there is no substitute for experience when it comes to judging what route to go down.


Ideally you should be using the same shavings as the wood you are working, but theoretically, any shavings would do as long as they are not harder than the wood you are working, and as long as there is no risk of colour contamination, or contamination by other means, such as shavings from an oily wood being used on wood that is not oily. Shavings from a wood that is harder runs the risk if scratching the work - softer shavings will not yield quite so good a result, so try to use the same shavings as the wood you are working.

I keep a little plastic tub handy (in fact a food container from my local Indian Takeaway), in which I collect a reserve supply of shavings. Whenever you get some spare olivewood shavings gathering on the lathe, collect it up and keep it in your container, for the times when you don't have enough. I would much prefer to do that than use the stuff on the floor, or risk random shavings from other work that I'm not sure about.


Yes, it's crucial to always use dry tissue for burnishing.


No, sorry. I've not received an email or PM from you recently.

Thanks Phil...today's job is trying out this technique and seeing if I can suss it out. I really don't like stress and pressure, and using CA causes me a lot of stress because it sets so fast a whole host of issues can arise, so being able to use such a technique as finishing with melamine is a breath of fresh air...literally. :)

I've done a few pen videos and been asked if I can do more...I'm very selective about the pens I buy now as I only like to sell decent pens. I tend now to just buy from yourself and Dan. So I thought I'd have a go at filming the Tempest and thought it would be fitting to finish it in Melamine. But before I do that, it's important I get the finish right. I'm confident I can as I've been practicing all week and your guide serves as a huge help. I've got a couple of Tempests from yourself this week and a few drill bits. My videos, if you havent seen them, just show the pen kit and assembly...just to give an idea of what the kit looks like to people who haven't seen them. They aren't reviews, but I've had a lot of good feedback about them. And I only put them up if it shows the pen in a good light...ie. If I made a total mess of things I'd make sure I started again :)

That said, the drill that arrived was an 8.2mm (for the Mistral I think) not 8.1mm. Thought I'd best check to see if the 8.2mm is suitable or not...was t sure how much difference .1mm makes so I emailed you to check as the packaging said 8.1mm. My emails aren't all being sent (bt issue) so you may not receive it. :( If you can let me know just in case that'd be great (Smugwood) and thanks again for the help...busy day ahead :)

 

[bigbob]

Thank you for the tutorial Phil I will try it tomorrow. The only question I have and it is probably a daft one is about the single ply tissues I only need a small roll to try your method out but can not seem to find them anywhere would this do if all else fails C-Fold Hand Towels 1Ply 2880 Sheets - Toolstation

 

[Phil Dart]

I emailed you to check

I haven't received an email from you I'm afraid Lee. I'll send you a PM in a few moments.

 

[Phil Dart]

Thank you for the tutorial Phil I will try it tomorrow. The only question I have and it is probably a daft one is about the single ply tissues I only need a small roll to try your method out but can not seem to find them anywhere would this do if all else fails C-Fold Hand Towels 1Ply 2880 Sheets - Toolstation

I'm sure those towels will be fine Bob. I think a lot of turners use that kind of thing. It's just that I get through an awful lot of tissue so I buy the centrefeed stuff in bulk for reasons of economy. I have a centrefeed dispenser screwed to the wall in my workshop.

Having said that, I could have sworn I saw half size rolls in Morrisons, so if they sell it you may find Tescos do to. I may be wrong about both though. Next time you're in Milburn Road you could have a look, or on the retail park And I know that places like Viking sell them too, and the dispensers. It doesn't really matter which you go for though, I'm sure the Toolstation stuff will be fine. I was just making the point in my tutorial that kitchen roll is not the thing to use.

(there's a Toolstation in Henderson Road, but you probably know that)

 

[wm460]

Thanks for posting Phil, downloaded to my computer, tried to down on my phone but only get gobbity gook.

 

[AllenN]

Thank you for taking the trouble to get all this down Phil, it is an excellent tutorial. I have given it a go on a test piece and as soon as I get a chance I am going to put a real pen through the same technique. Your additional comments on Olive are especially timely as I have a few of those to make shortly.

 

[wm460]

Is this the type of abranet you use Phil?

MIRKA Abranet 77mm abrasive sanding discs (box of 50 pads) | eBay

 

[Phil Dart]

Is this the type of abranet you use Phil?

MIRKA Abranet 77mm abrasive sanding discs (box of 50 pads) | eBay

I'm pretty sure abranet is abranet, but I buy mine in boxes of 50 in sheet form rather than disk form. I get mine from a local tool company in Inverness, which is the best value I've found, but you can also get it from Turner's Retreat and a few other places - not much help to you in Australia I know. Ebay is generally the most expensive way possible to buy it, because all they do is buy a box of 50 then split it up and sell it in small quantities for more than they paid for it, so it's worth doing a bit of research and shopping around.

On the face of it, it does seem very pricey stuff, but it lasts much longer than any paper or fabric backed abrasives I've ever come across. Having said that, you don't have to use abranet - that's just my personal choice of abrasive. If it does a good job, whatever you use now will be just as good.

 

[Sgreen]

Excellent tutorial and one I will be using.