Bushing rip off??

[Tom Murray]

Hi, I'm Tom,

I've just started turning pens (my daughter bought me "Pen Turner's Workbook by Barry Gross" for my Christmas). Normally I turn bowls and spindles etc. & have made a couple of acoustic 'Blue Grass' style mandolins. Making pens seems quite an enjoyable side to woodturning and could, perhaps, provide some pocket money into the bargain. I've bought a few different pen kits (slimline, sierra, European filigree etc.) but find it annoying that just about every kit requires a different set of bushings. I'm sure this topic must have popped up many times on Penturners Forum but I'm also new to forums (and interactive computing!) so my searches have not been productive. I've tried to produce some bushings of my own but I'm trying to turn metal bushes on a woodturning lathe using files and emery cloth so the results are not very accurate or true. I would be prepared to shell out some cash for a 'universal' set of bushings but find it a bit tedious (and expensive) to buy new bushings for each new style and make of pen kit but have not found such a thing with a 'Google' search. Anyone know of a set of bushings that would fit most common pen kit styles? I've also wondered about making (or buying?) some tapered, self centring (??) bushes, any thoughts on that? I should also mention that I'm a Scotsman -'nuph said!

 

[Walter]

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry to disappoint your Scottish thrift gene but no such thing exists or ever could.

How could it possibly when tube and component sizes vary from kit to kit.

You could use cone bushes and a set of callipers.

p.s. Barry's book is OK but you could have bought a better one. I couldn't possibly name the author.

 

[Bammer]

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry to disappoint your Scottish thrift gene but no such thing exists or ever could.

How could it possibly when tube and component sizes vary from kit to kit.

You could use cone bushes and a set of callipers.

p.s. Barry's book is OK but you could have bought a better one. I couldn't possibly name the author.

I have both books .... and Barry's is now falling apart I've gone through it that much .... the other one is still in it's wrapper ....

 

[Walter]

I have both books .... and Barry's is now falling apart I've gone through it that much .... the other one is still in it's wrapper ....

That's what you get for buying cheap crappy American books.

 

[Phil Dart]

Hi Tom - welcome to the forum

The thing is that bushes need to conform to the inside diameter on the tubes on the one hand, and the outside diameter of the components on the other. Therefore it is necessary to have bushes for each kit - otherwise you might just as well ask "why cant all kits use the same tubes and have the same sized components?"

It's true that some kits will have sizes in common with others, meaning that some bushes can be used for perhaps more than one kit, but that sort of knowledge comes with experience and research. The investment in a set of bushes varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, and although they are ultimately consumable (they will wear out eventually), the need to replace them is a considerable number of pens away for each set. The need to buy a set per model at the start of your journey is an expense that I agree, perhaps goes against the grain, and in some cases the cost of the bushes can be as much, if not more then the price of the kit, but long term the cost of them is negligible compared to the number of pens they are each going to allow you to make.

The book that [MENTION=95]Walter[/MENTION] is referring to by the way is:
A Complete Guide to Turning Pens & Pencils by Walter Hall
Taunton Press
ISDN 978-1-60085-365-4

 

[21William]

Conical bushes are popular with some turners for the very reason you’ve mentioned. You do need to keep a close eye on dimensions though. I could say that standard bushes or bushings as the yanks call them are the “cheats” or bodgers way of pen turning unless of course you make them yourself but I wouldn’t be very popular on here so I won’t say it ...
Seriously though, if you’re turning lots of pens of the same type though on say a production basis bushes are a no brainer.

 

[Penpal]

My sympathies mate. the varying thicknesses on kit pens make universal things impracticable. Go between centres and end your misery.Caliper everything.

Peter.

 

[APH]

I think most new pen turners will agree that having to buy different bushings for each of the better pens kits is rather frustrating. It would seem a sensible idea to standardise pen components so that a universal kit could be offered, but with so many different manufacturers it seems unlikely that could happen any time soon.
Yes, you can turn to size with calipers, but what a faff. Maybe worth it for one offs, but when making more than one, bushes provide a fast and easy way to make several pens.

Trying to make your own bushes with files and emery paper isn't really the right way to go about it. You're unlikely to get the precision you need without a metal working lathe and waste a huge amount of time attempting it.

The good news is that the 7mm ones are pretty standard across a range kits. Once you've been through the 'just started, want to try everything' stage you'll probably settle down to just using a few specific kits and not need to buy any new bushes until your existing ones wear out.

The other pain is storing and labeling bushes so they don't get mixed up.

 

[Tom Murray]

Thanks for all your prompt and helpful replies. APH's comments make a lot of sense to me. As someone new to pen turning, I set about making a few different designs to see what they looked like and try to work out why there seemed to be a vast difference in kit prices. I thought that, once I'd found a couple of kits I liked I'd probably stick with them but in the meantime I found that I needed different bushings for each kit and some of them would eventually not be required. Like other folks, I wondered why there were so many different tube diameters etc. and wondered if it was just a ploy by kit manufacturers to sell bushings (hence the "Rip Off" title of my original post). It may be because there are so many manufacturers out there who have just not gotten round to standardising sizes but I remain a bit cynical. Anyway, I think I'll concentrate on a few sets of bushings for popular kits (my mandrel came with 7mm bushings for slimline kits) and also get a set of tapered bushings which would allow me to have a first bash at kits I might not wish to continue with as it is much easier to tell what you like when it is in the hand rather than looking at a photograph - the filigree I made looked nice on paper but was far too 'top heavy' for my liking. Of course, there is also the option of turning between centres as I do not see myself going into mass production and I do possess a set of digital callipers although my skill level might be a bit doubtful. Turning bowls does not require the same degree of accuracy and, although the fretting of a mandolin fretboard needs to be spot on it requires a different sort of skill. Many thanks for your thoughts, you seem to be a good set of guys out there.

Tom

 

[silver]

Well, that is a very good question, why can't the manufacturers make all fittings and tubes the same size so we can use the same bushes..

Problem 1.

The bushes would need to suit all refill forms, Parker, Cross, Rollerball and of course the many fpdifferent Fountain pens which has many different sizes of nibs..
Solution,, make all the bushes, tubes and fitting to suit the largest pen type. then we wouldn't have the "slimline" pens.

Problem 2. All the pens would basically be the same physical size, would that suit all users..

Solution, have the Russian KGB sent over and kill anyone that wants to be different..

Problem 3. Many of the designs was copyrighted and prevented any other manufacturer making anything like the pens designed, so they only have to alter one part of the design be it tube diameter, length or change the fittings or clips to get around this law.

Solution, send the Russian KGB over to kill all companies directors that try and exploit loop holes in copyright design and make sure we only have one design and one only.

Other solution for all the above is move to a country where dictatorship is abound and we all live happy ever after..

By the way, Walter book isn't that bad. Even my grandson (9 at the time) could follow it and make pens..:wink:

In reality the die is set and unles you buy a set of bushes whenever you buy a new kit then it's resolve it with a set of cones and use calipers to measure the size.

Happy turning Tom..

 

[APH]

The bushes would need to suit all refill forms,......

Surely the bushes have little to do with refill type ? They are dictated by internal tube size and fitting diameters.

Would it really be too difficult to standardise on maybe three tube internal diameters ? eg 7mm/9mm/11mm that would cover most demands.
You could then make three sets of external bushings that fit on the three sizes. Say in 1mm steps.
Get the set made from something like a hard wearing stainless steel and you'd only ever need to buy a single set when you start.

There's already a good standard for mandrel shafts that seems well adopted, so maybe there's hope ?

But then the Americans won't want to work in something sensible like metric :-(

 

[Dalboy]

I started out buying bushes for the kits but gave up and now only ever use tapered and measure every component. It works for me you just have to remember not to tighten the tailstock too much otherwise you can splay the end of the tubes which in turn can crack the blank material especially the acrylic type.

OK the guys on here will rib me by saying that I don't turn that many any how.

 

[silver]

I agree [MENTION=1766]APH[/MENTION]

If you make tubes to suit the largest pen refill or cartridge type then you would end up with larger diameter slimline pens. Something that wouldn't sit well with some users.

However I agree with the 3 tube idea and believe that would work.

In the real world that's not going to happen as it would mean all pen part manufacturers making a change to their process and would mean an expense for them and that means handing that cost over to us, the pen kit user.

We could always hope for the " VHS effect" and buyer power take over and then all of them would desperately change everything to suit.

But I believe that it's really possible, then again I believe that the Americans could change to the metric system as well.

I'm sure Trump will make us all Great Americans one day. :wink:

 

[Gregory Hardy]

That's what you get for buying cheap crappy American books.

Hide the women and children, and take cover! The "Anglo-American Literary War of 2018" has commenced!

 

[APH]

In the real world that's not going to happen as it would mean all pen part manufacturers making a change to their process and would mean an expense for them and that means handing that cost over to us, the pen kit user.

The other side is; a degree of standardisation would also reduce the necessity of holding large ranges of diverse stock and that reduces overheads.

There's also the interesting possibility that it would open up a more 'pick and mix' approach to pen making.

I'm sure Trump will make us all Great Americans one day.

No, he's just making America grate.

 

[21William]

There's already a good standard for mandrel shafts that seems well adopted, so maybe there's hope ?

Really? I seem to remember someone posting the 5 or 6 different mandrel sizes available from different manufacturers.

In America there are roughly two different size mandrels, the “A” size which is 6.27mm and the “B” size which is 7.39mm.

Over here the small size mandrel seems to vary in size from 6.18mm to 6.28mm depending on who makes it and who’s measuring it!

 

[Walter]

The simple fact is that pen kit manufacturers are no more likely to standardise on a few standard sizes of tube than car makers are to simplify the wheel sizes of cars so there are only three or four sizes of tyres needed.

Even if they standardised tube sizes then the varying external sizes of components would mean that various sized bushes would still be needed.

This type of restriction would prevent manufacturers from producing the wide variety of kit designs we currently enjoy.

Perhaps all nuts and bolts could be made the same size so Scotsmen only ever need to buy one spanner.

 

[Walter]

Hide the women and children, and take cover! The "Anglo-American Literary War of 2018" has commenced!

My printing press is bigger than your printing press and mine works.

 

[Phil5th]

The problem I have is when you buy a kit and then can't find the bushings anywhere, even the site that sold you the kit doesn't stock them. Bought a Shotgun Pen Kit as a gift for a shooting friend and can't find the bushes. Anyone tried making some out of acrylic offcuts with a spare 7mm tube on a mandrel? Think this might be my only option other than searching the web for sites in the USA and then pay 3 times what I paid for the Kit

 

[Dalboy]

I'm sure Trump will make us all Great Americans one day.

[MENTION=165]silver[/MENTION] does that mean instead of the country being in a stated we then become a state