Bushing rip off??

[Lons]

each kit need a different set of bushes..

Each kit does not "NEED" a set of bushes. Yes they may be desirable but as I said can easily be made for no cost whatsoever by anyone with enough skill to turn a cylinder on a lathe. Otherwise don't use them at all and turn between centres.

Anyway Paul, I'm not going to argue further as I've repeated the same point several times I guess agree to disagree is the way forward. This is a great forum and usually very helpful and good natured unlike many others which is why I'm not going to add more to this thread. I want the forum to stay that way.

Interesting that in the couple of months and 30 odd posts since you joined there seem to have been a number of negative posts.

 

[Phil Dart]

I think Paul, that one thing is abundantly clear here, which is that you and I have diametrically opposing views on this subject. No amount of persuasion on your part is going to make me sway from mine though I'm afraid, (which is drawn from the fact that my living for the most part is derived from designing and manufacturing pen kits), and I suspect the reverse is also true. I suggest therefore, that we agree to differ like gentlemen.

My last word on the subject though, in response to Bob's observation above, is that by the time the VAT man has had his chunk, there is virtually no profit in bushes, particularly considering that a large number of them end up being given away as freebies in any case. I suppose if we had them made in China from cheap, low grade rusty stuff it might be different, but we don't, we have them made in the UK from high grade stainless steel. As you point out Bob, flogging bushes is most certainly not a motivation for diversity of pen kit design - bushes are made available as a necessary service to customers, not as a get rich quick scheme or to fund a new Ferrari. (Diversity of pen kit design funds the Ferrari - ooops!)

 

[Lons]

A Ferrari isn't much use where you live Phil, too much rain, ice and snow. I had a go in one in the wet and it scared the sh*t out of me.
Might be up your way this spring if we can guess when is the one sunny week a year you get. Caravan is just sitting there getting older, like me.

 

[Penpal]

Over here we have a short ad where a little old lady gets into a parking space and can,t get out. This to the great mirth of the parking attendant. Out and away she goes and returns in a Gullwing super sports car. In she goes up with the door and on her way.

There are so many ways to solve a problem IMHO, some obvious and some obtuse. Happy New year to all Penturners,may you all flourish.

Peter.

 

[Lons]

Over here we have a short ad where a little old lady gets into a parking space and can,t get out. This to the great mirth of the parking attendant. Out and away she goes and returns in a Gullwing super sports car. In she goes up with the door and on her way.

There are so many ways to solve a problem IMHO, some obvious and some obtuse. Happy New year to all Penturners,may you all flourish.

Peter.

My new car has the facility to park itself peter, I've had it since early November and haven't plucked up courage to try it yet.

I also have an app on my iphone which allows me to be out of the car, just press OK and it would park without me in it - I'm definitely not going to try that!

 

[21William]

I do wonder some times how many folks on here actually use bushes given the mismatch of blank to kit I’ve seen on here recently. I’ve seen many pens where the finished blank is simply too fat for the kit components. I’m sure the pen designer intended the shape to flow from the tip to the cap without a “carbuncle” in the middle.

 

[Penpal]

Construction ,design of pens is very personal when specific needs are met for someone. I make shapes to suit the purpose. In the eye of the beholder we show on the forum. Some will like,some not. Proportion is flexible and necessary. Those of us with crippling arthritus will understand. The defining problem is the lack of space in most pen kits toward the tip,centre and top where often I compensate to enable some tricky pen blank material a higher level of safety from splitting. Users remark from feeling a pen in the hand.

Peter.

 

[Pastor of Muppets]

is it too late to chime in on the subject of car wheels?

Standard is just a matter of opinion.

But on the subject of bushings and as a new pen turner they are a necessary expense like brake pads, or light bulbs, or food. And some of them are lovely too the ones I have for my Mistrals are as much a work of art as the pens.

What I resent is all the bloody drill bits and imperial sizing 27/64 is just a silly measurement!

 

[Walter]

27/64 is just a silly measurement!

No it isn't. It is just another example of what we call reality.

Imperial measurements have been in use for hundreds of years and worked perfectly well. For the USA and many other countries they are still the standard.

Metric measurements were developed separately in Europe and also work perfectly well in most European countries.

In the 1970's the UK adopted metric measurements (sort of) and now we are left with a mix of both, not only because some people prefer one system to the other but because we import stuff, including pen kits, from countries that still use imperial measurements.

Alongside this engineers, for reasons that I do not fully understand, developed letter and number systems of drill bit sizing. Perhaps an engineer could explain the reasons for this. Maybe like accountants they just like to make things complicated to confuse the uninitiated.

This is not going to change. the Europeans are not going to revert to Imperial measurements and the USA if it ever adopts the metric system will likely do so slowly and piecemeal just as the UK has done. The two systems will continue to exist sided by side long after any of us are around to worry about it.

Like it or not pen bush sizes have been designed to fit different kit dimensions by different makers over time. Some are Imperial some metric and some in odd letter and number sizes. This is also not going to change, especially not retrospectively. This whole debate has been entirely pointless and has achieved nothing, which is precisely all it could ever have achieved.

 

[APH]

What I resent is all the bloody drill bits and imperial sizing 27/64 is just a silly measurement!

Do the conversion and use a metric one that's close enough.
The specifications on drill sizes are bit nonsense because they have to allow some clearance for gluing anyway. Use a glue that can gap fill, like Gorilla glue, and you can get away with more than the manufacturers would have you believe.

 

[APH]

Each kit does not "NEED" a set of bushes. Yes they may be desirable but as I said can easily be made for no cost whatsoever by anyone with enough skill to turn a cylinder on a lathe.

Yes, it's possible. The problem is that anything easy to turn to make a bush from is also easy to damage when in use. Just nick the DIY bush with a tool or hit it with sandpaper and the precision diameter needed has gone into the sawdust pile.

 

[wm460]

Alongside this engineers, for reasons that I do not fully understand, developed letter and number systems of drill bit sizing. Perhaps an engineer could explain the reasons for this.

I wonder about this, I have a set of metric cobalt drill that go up in 0.1 increments.
Cant be too many sizes not covered with them.

 

[APH]

bushes are made available as a necessary service to customers, not as a get rich quick scheme

I don't think anyone here has seriously suggested otherwise.
I'm just pointing out that the proliferation of bushes isn't entirely necessary and a result of lack of oversight, rather conspiracy.

But it seems there's a great wall of 'nothing can be done' attitude, so nothing will change.

 

[Walter]

On the contrary, there is a "nothing needs to be done" attitude about a first world problem that only a very few people care about.

 

[APH]

Do you not worry that it turns off beginners ?

 

[Lons]

Yes, it's possible. The problem is that anything easy to turn to make a bush from is also easy to damage when in use. Just nick the DIY bush with a tool or hit it with sandpaper and the precision diameter needed has gone into the sawdust pile.

Use cones when sanding and that doesn't happen, nick the bushes with a tool and you're going to damage the bush AND need to sharpen the tool, just have to be more careful. I'd rather damage a home made bush than my expensive turning chisel. I can turn replacements in a few minutes if necessary.

One of the benefits of making your own bushes is that providing you drill the hole precisely to fit your own mandrel it will be more accurate than bought bushes as the mandrels also vary sometimes considerably
In any event when I use bushes they are there only as a guide to get the blank reasonably close to finishing diameter as I use calipers to finish.

As you said Paul nothing's going to change though so we just have to make our own choice to pay or not. Same as most things in this world.

 

[Walter]

Do you not worry that it turns off beginners ?

Yes, I do not worry about it at all, at any level.

 

[Penpal]

Considering limiting the number and type of pens also lessons the number of choices for bushes etc for beginners and for others such as me can be a help. Having more than one car draws comparisons as more than one pen type draws comparisons too. Amazing how we adapt,learn and achieve. Why I heartily recommend membership of Wood Groups when we mix with others with differing aims and aspirations.When I joined a Photographic Society I was told to enter a picture I had made. I produced it using an enlarger made from a folding camera,my darkroom was under the stairs in my house, I am 6 foot 2 inches. What I am saying I went through hell and back to create that picture.The judge on the night competition slated my picture based on composition (new words and meaning) and other things.Talk about embarassed. Got over it but learned a lot.

Every pen I see I remember and understand what I have been through I trust I can enjoy both the process and the journey.

Peter.

 

[21William]

Do you not worry that it turns off beginners ?

There are often several different ways to carry out each process. As a result of this there are several of bits of equipment touted to pen turners that aren't really needed. As a beginner you have to do your research and make sure you don’t get sucked into making poor buying decisions. It also depends hugely on what equipment you already may have. Best thing to do is ask lots of questions on here! Most of us are pleased to help out newcomers.

 

[Walter]

As a beginner you have to do your research and make sure you don’t get sucked into making poor buying decisions.

Quite so William. For most people this is a hobby and like any other hobby there is an initial outlay that is sometimes underestimated. Just as examples, if taken seriously, photography requires lenses and peripheral equipment such as tripods and filters, golf requires more than a nine iron and a putter. Anyone serious about pen making has already made a significant investment in a lathe, tools, chucks, ancillary equipment etc. so another £3.99 occasionally for a set of bushes to make a different kit is a drop in the ocean.

For those who are doing this with the intention of making money or as part of a business then the tiny cost of bushes will be passed on to the customer in the price of finished goods if these are properly costed.

I said in my earlier reply to Paul that I do not worry about it at all, at any level, but that possibly overstates its impact upon my consciousness. I do not even think about it at all, the cost of bushes has never impinged upon my enjoyment of pen making and am only engaged in this discussion now because a thrifty Scotsman expressed his displeasure at having to spend money and then the subject, which is of scant concern to anyone but Paul, was picked up and has now been done to death.

Please stop now. There are more important things in life, like the cup of tea I am about to make. Should I be worrying about the price of tea bags?