The EU has been clever in giving funds to certain areas around the EU and those areas are pleased with the funds they have managed to wheedle out of the EU, but don't forget that those funds are only available because we have paid massively into the EU for too many years. I have seen no benefit of EU membership, there are no "show sites" around here funded by the EU with their signs plastered around, I have seen them in Spain and Italy where a few people benefit from the EU's largesse.
We did very well before the EU and I have no doubt we will do just as nicely.
Peter
I'm sorry Peter I am not singling you out, you are just the only one who is honestly coming up with the situation as you see it and as you have been sold it, moreover you are also trying to put the perspective that you see into something constructive and as such I respect your view point which is why I shall try to continue to discuss with you.
Keep in mind that I don't have the benefit of canvassers coming round to me; only my own personal knowledge of the EU is as I have worked with it, moreover I don't have just the UK press, I have the benefit of both the UK press and the European press because I speak several languages so I can surf at will.
So lets get some context here, the UK press only publishes sensationalism that will sell; its a bit like soaps, they sell well because everyone in them has more misery than at home so you can feel a little bit better off. No journalist will sell a 'it feels good ' story because it won't sell.
The EU doesn't do clever and give funds only to certain areas this is a fact; the EU organisations that disburse funds, have specific rules and regulations agreed by all nations (note no consensus 100% or nothing) and they disburse those fund to those areas that:
A
Apply this first is important... if you don't ask you don't get!! Many areas are so hide bound about EU membership that they don't even ask ... I think that comes under the heading of pride and pride come before a fall. Let me give you an example as I believe I understand it (now it is possible that I am wrong here but that won't be a first :wink:) Scotland chose to apply for and get a ruling that small businesses (of a certain type I can't list all of which but try holiday premises and touristic things ) under a certain turnover could get an EU business rate rebate of 100% I believe that the turnover is 100 000£ or so. So when that goes??? well your imagination is as good as mine.
B don't have the reserves to pay for the requirement themselves. There are many councils in the UK who for a host of reasons but mainly for their own pet projects have hoarded huge amounts of cash reserves and have now been found out after all if you can pay for it why ask someone else to pay for it. In the main having a huge cash reserve allows the council to pay for an emergency or a kudos raising project (good for re-election) but the EU applies the rules equally and says if you can afford it then you pay for it if you can't then we will help. This cannot happen in France, Italy or Germany (the only 3 countries I know reasonably well but I understand that is the same in most) very simply because the mayoral funding is disbursed centrally (they are not allowed to hoard capital ) and so the funding is disbursed centrally on a per capita basis and not on a politically defined voting area so prefectural areas can bid as they see fit. So What you say? well have you noticed how the roads on the continent have improved over the last 40 years but the UK's have deteriorated when we used to have the best. Perhaps nobody bid for EU road infrastructure money like the French (I do agree that Italy is in the same boat as the UK).
C there are a few others but a pen turning forum probably isn't the best environment.
However, I do have this to say about Nigel Farage, he was elected as an MEP to represent constructively the UK's best interests in the European parliament. If he had worked as hard to do so then the UK would have benefitted far more than it has done so far and this argument would not be happening, instead he chose to take a destructive path and work against the UKs interests. Consequently, I believe that the UK will now go to the back of the queue as far as a free trade agreement with the USA is concerned and that it will take at least 10 years to negotiate one once we have got to the head of the queue. Why should China negotiate a free trade agreement with one little country in the European continent when it is not supported by the other nations in that continent ? Remember we were Great Britain only when we had an empire, we can't go and conquer it all again just to be Great again otherwise we would be accused of doing what Putin did in the Crimea and we already did that once before
Before the great British public moans and groans about immigrants just think about how hypocritical that is when we were the biggest immigrant population in the British empire as we occupied by force certainly all of the current commonwealth not to mention the rest who have left because we took all that they had to leave them nothing. Remember I am ex military of 25 years, the occupation of the commonwealth by force of arms and how to do it successfully, is compulsory reading for all of us.
We didn't do very well before the EU because we had 2 world wars followed by a period of poverty which was only alleviated in the 60s and which got better in the 70s and then we joined the EU and got a lot better. I was born in 1950 and can remember that my father as an Officer RAF test pilot had to apply for housing benefits because his pay was so bad so please never say we were a lot better before the EU its not true.
I don't agree with a federation of European states and I do agree with the UK staying out of the Eurozone (no matter how that impacts on my pension which is taxed by law in the UK) I do however agree with the inclusion of the UK in the European free market and all that implies, as was envisaged in the first referendum 40 years ago. I object most strongly to those politicians who lied to the general public about the reasons for leaving and who you will now see have left the stage very quickly because they know that they lied.
RANT over
PG
PS as I write this I just heard that Boris Johnson has just been made foreign secretary talk about being 'hoisted on your own petard'
