Sierra Pens for Sale on Ebay

[Woody]

My views exactly gents

 

[glenpen]

If I worried what other people thought or said about me I would never get out of bed in the mornings. As it is, what they think or say is none of my business so I don't let it worry me.

I was very sad to read all the negative remarks about his work. Remarks that could be really hurtful without knowing all the details of his circumstances. I was sat here thinking do I really want to make anymore pens leaving myself open to professional turners until I read the above.
Let me tell you my story. A few years ago I had a nervous breakdown / depression and had to leave work. I wouldn't get out of bed and didn't give a dam about my life but I had help from my wife and through her and my doctor came through it. I was encouraged to take up a hobby (woodturning- making pens Olivewood that I love ) A HOBBY not in it to make money and possibly in your eyes they are rubbish, but the hospice I give them to very cheap are happy, I'm happy that I am doing something useful.
Lets not discourage people like myself and possibly this chap, we are not all experts but are proud in what we are doing and we all learn as we go along.
Glen

 

[Buckeye]

You are right about nobody knows about the circumstances of an individual, but if they are selling something and the quality is suspect then they are fair game. If the person said they were turning for therapeutic reason then it's a different story. I understand that someone who has certain issues maybe will not wish to disclose it, but you can't then put comments about poor workmanship down to professional criticism. I think everyone who is fairly human will have compassion if they know the circumstances.

Regards
Peter

 

[Vic Perrin]

Come on Guys & Girls lets close this one. I wish that I had not made the opening thread I am starting to feel pretty bad about it.

I did not take into account the situation that the seller might be in, after all it's not always about profit I often get told by fellow turners that I sell my stuff too cheap.

Vic

 

[Paul]

I was very sad to read all the negative remarks about his work. Remarks that could be really hurtful without knowing all the details of his circumstances. I was sat here thinking do I really want to make anymore pens leaving myself open to professional turners until I read the above.
Let me tell you my story. A few years ago I had a nervous breakdown / depression and had to leave work. I wouldn't get out of bed and didn't give a dam about my life but I had help from my wife and through her and my doctor came through it. I was encouraged to take up a hobby (woodturning- making pens Olivewood that I love ) A HOBBY not in it to make money and possibly in your eyes they are rubbish, but the hospice I give them to very cheap are happy, I'm happy that I am doing something useful.
Lets not discourage people like myself and possibly this chap, we are not all experts but are proud in what we are doing and we all learn as we go along.
Glen

Hey Glen, some valid points my friend, and thanks for opening up. Email is the worse form of communication, so no offence is intended

Do keep making pens that you love, I'm a newb too, and the chaps here don't take the Micky, I fact I have got better with their help and advice. Mine are awful ( just got my first commission mind )

You will also note the experienced chaps also get opinion here too, when they make something the others disagree with. Ie Neil's long / short pens, and this is his living......


I think it differs when one starts to "ask money" in that case the person is acting like a business, even if they are a hobbyist. Thus I think it is valid to then comment - hey mate your product is not worth the price, and please don't undervalue the other turners. ( I know ebay is a bit different being half pro and half amateur.

You and I don't advertise for money, ie we don't enter into trust etc.

The chaps also slated the idiot that claimed an association with the royal wedding at £500 a pen.....

Ps. I bet your pens are better than you think they are, and even if they weren't the chaps would pass advice if asked, but if not asked for, they will just enjoy looking at your pens ( some of them are obsessed - pen perverts the lot of them)

You and me, Showing our pens in progress here, compared to advertising pens for money are two different things, and should be open to scrutiny in different ways surely.

Keep posting, I really like olive wood, and so would love to see them .... Hmm maybe I'm a pen perve too,

 

[Buckeye]

Come on Guys & Girls lets close this one. I wish that I had not made the opening thread I am starting to feel pretty bad about it.

I did not take into account the situation that the seller might be in, after all it's not always about profit I often get told by fellow turners that I sell my stuff too cheap.

Vic

Why, don't you want to hear different opinions?

Glen raised a valid point, you could give him the courtesy of the replies he will receive.

Peter

 

[paulm]

Its a shame that this thread is now being perceived to having become one of malice which I'm sure it never was by anybody. The facts are this person is selling pens at a price far less than anyone who sells their pens would like to see as it has the potential to make their own work seem overpriced, but that won't happen. The quality of the work isn't as good as anybodies on here and if it was they would be guided into the right direction on how to improve it. We don't need however to put someone else's light out to make our own shine brighter. Vic you shouldn't feel guilty in any way about starting this thread and Glen, I'm very pleased that a hobby such as this got you over the worst, hopefully and you did what you wanted with your wares. All in all it shows we're all individuals.

Why not finish this thread now eh?

 

[Neil]

Some of us may now feel odd about commenting about this, I don't, but we all have a view, and that is what forums are all about, expressing those views. If you put something in the public view it will get judged on the information you put it in the public eye with, and as such, I still say that the workmanship is not very good. I dont like Mozart, but the fact that he was deaf doesnt make me like the music, it does make it fantastic though. I still think the workmanship is awful, it will remain awful, but if the guy who made it has problems of whatever nature, then it may make it fantastic, but we do not have that information.

I havent reread the thread so am willing to be corrected but nobody has seriously attacked this guy in a personal manner, expressed incredulity at what he is doing maybe, but not seriously attacked him personally. We sent someone packing from this forum who tried to sell his kits in a rather bombastic mode a couple of months ago, he was judged by the insformation that he put in front of us. Neil L and I happen to know otherwise but he could have been a very disabled guy trying to make a living, but he wasnt.

There are no experts on this forum or any other, there are some who have made more pens than some or most, but that doesnt make any of them experts.


I, and I am sure many others do, get criticised frequently, more often than not by women, and I suspect by those who cannot afford to buy one of my pens, by saying to their mates in a stage whisper, words to the effect "Look at how hideously expensive those pens are". I can get over that, its not my problem. I cant please anyone every day, and as sure as heck, I upset some people with what is on occasion, my own stupid behaviour or insensitivity. Experience is the name we give to our mistakes (Oscar Wilde) and on that scale I'm very experienced. I can take criticism and do not like the politically correct world we seemed destined to be. Every successful person has been criticised. (I've been criticised but remain yet to be successful!)

Well I have rambled but I hope you get my gist, my signature here is about as appropriate as you can get.

 

[cookie21]

I was very sad to read all the negative remarks about his work. Remarks that could be really hurtful without knowing all the details of his circumstances. I was sat here thinking do I really want to make anymore pens leaving myself open to professional turners until I read the above.
Let me tell you my story. A few years ago I had a nervous breakdown / depression and had to leave work. I wouldn't get out of bed and didn't give a dam about my life but I had help from my wife and through her and my doctor came through it. I was encouraged to take up a hobby (woodturning- making pens Olivewood that I love ) A HOBBY not in it to make money and possibly in your eyes they are rubbish, but the hospice I give them to very cheap are happy, I'm happy that I am doing something useful.
Lets not discourage people like myself and possibly this chap, we are not all experts but are proud in what we are doing and we all learn as we go along.
Glen

Hi Glen
Very good point, even the people you refer to as experts are not as good as they think they are sometimes, let the guy in question get on with enjoying his life, if people like his work they will buy it & why not

 

[Penpal]

There are unknown or lesser known consequences of being a member and full of the milk of human kindness recently I tried by getting the private E Mail of a member a method I have to use with my limited tech knowledge and sent what I consider still the most innocuous E Mail detailed pics and words and the home provider of the member descended like a viper and nearly wiped me out. Up until then I kept asking did you get the info, no but my site first blush will ask me for confirmation and approval either end this did not happen and suddenly the nastiest situation occurred taking my national provider many hours and heartache on my side to restore connectivity. Personally I have measures now to reduce the effect of terrible things occuring.

Whenever I read on the site how did you do this etc I remember the huge amount of time I have spent with back pics giving my best help, invariably things get distorted and many times a hissing competition develops.

I seriously considered casual membership like so many have on the forum and recently when Alex tried to share his good news of the pen he made for a famous person visiting his mates school through the son, including pics of the guy with Alex pen in his hand the dreadful however intended remarks flowed that made me ashamed to be a member at all.

Comments made re Alex and his new blade also in very bad taste for whatever reason, over here we call it tall poppy syndrome.

As you all claim your right to your opinion so do I. When I joined the forum it was languishing so I summoned up as much as I could of in my opinion experiences incredible numbers of pictures a great deal of time and effort none of this with any regrets but with a resolve to view everything as intended to be helpful without claiming to be any more than a happy penturner member.

Enjoy the forum everyone in your own way as I have been known I was taught to be cautious. For all members who have family who are sick, infirm or different in any way remember them when observing others. Over to you.

Kind regards Peter.

 

[Buckeye]

There are unknown or lesser known consequences of being a member and full of the milk of human kindness recently I tried by getting the private E Mail of a member a method I have to use with my limited tech knowledge and sent what I consider still the most innocuous E Mail detailed pics and words and the home provider of the member descended like a viper and nearly wiped me out. Up until then I kept asking did you get the info, no but my site first blush will ask me for confirmation and approval either end this did not happen and suddenly the nastiest situation occurred taking my national provider many hours and heartache on my side to restore connectivity. Personally I have measures now to reduce the effect of terrible things occuring.

Peter, you asked me a while back for my email address to send me some info of someone from the AIP, you asked if I had received it and I replied that I hadn't I explained that my email system issues a challenge to people who email me and if you respond to the challenge it will get through or if I see your email is waiting I can whitelist it and it will get through. I never saw hide nor hair of your email, so I hope you are not referring to me.

Peter

 

[Neil]

Peter, you said over to you so...

I've never heard of Tall Poppy Syndrome, so looked it up:

The tall poppy syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term primarily used in the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and other Anglosphere nations to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.

You have misunderstood the comments about Alexs chainsaw, and if this is the correct interpretation of Tall Poppy Syndrome it in the context you have written then I am sorry to say that what you understood is not what was meant or said.

On the issue of Alexs pen that he had presented to Warwick, the remarks weren't dreadful, merely misinterpreted, the joke was on Alex, he knew this and accepted it. Paulm made a joke about the pen being big, in the cold light of day that could have been considered offensive to dwarfs, but Warwick plays on his dwarfism, he is the founder of the Reduced Height Theatre Company, hosts his own television series about the challenges of a family of dwarfs going on holiday (his wife and kids are also dwarfs).

I cannot work out what happened to you about the email, or whether that is relevant to this thread, but hope that whatever was the problem, howsoever caused, is now fixed.

Humour comes in many forms but the problem with all published humour is that vocal tones are not transmitted and the emphasis cannot be relayed and as such statements can be misconstrued. That should be accepted and considered, by all. The big question, Is what I have just read, and understood, what was really meant and intended?

 

[paulm]

This thread is getting out of hand bringing up all sorts of things from the past where apologies were given if they caused offence and accepted, and that should be it, we shouldn't dwell on the past and as Neil says the humour (as we saw it) was on Alex and not Warwick although I must admit adding a large pen to the picture might have caused offence if he himself didn't play on it.

I'm not a politically correct person in a lot of ways and judging by some of the jokes that have been put on the forum and the comments following them, neither are most of the others here. I am ex military as others also are on here and we do have a slight perverse sense of humour but there is never any malice intended

With regards to this thread I think that its better for people to state their opinions, right or wrong and not have to worry about everything they say just in case it upsets someone, we'd all end up as mutes, frightened to say anything in case its wrong we all have opinions and if their not offensive then why not say them.

Vic started this thread bemused at the low price and standard at which someone was selling their pens. It is a low price and a low standard - fact. Why its blown up into a big issue is beyond me.

 

[Penpal]

Morning again here I am off shopping shortly forum matters behind me trust you enjoy the day as I intend to. I have years of military behind me often making it difficult to dilute for acceptability as well especially swearing vigorously that was a real problem for many years made some beaut friends on the forum hope to be an effective member contributing as best I can. The good news is I finished my stint on the roof safely and well whats bitten me on the bum in the past is past the glass is always nearly full. I have a problem to solve in the house rear entrance and a mate just came to borrow my 14 foot step ladder for his building addition to his house and helped me with a double glazing supplier 400 miles away making top quality stuff so some more of the list of immediates can be resolved. No amount of discussion on our forum follows strictly in any way it is our diverse privilige it would seem to interpret in our own way what we say and what we read. Have fun today I will the basis of our pen turning addiction.

Kind regards Peter.

 

[yorkshireman]

Have fun today Peter. Look forward to your next pen.

 

[Grump]

Seconds out. Round two.
Morning all from sunny Majorca.

 

[Vic Perrin]

Chas - you are dead right, the quality of the first one is awful, but his learning curve doesn't seem to be too steep. From what I can make out he has sold six pens since 26 May, so he's hardly going to monopolise the UK pen market. Most of his sales appear to be olive wood pen blanks. He does drop himself in it with comments like the Olive wood has been seasoning in the Spanish sun. Well in that case I'll be leaving it well alone.

One thing that wasnt factored in is wasteage. I think he is getting his kits from Axminster, the name of the Polaris - the Premier - and the style of the Sierra and the centreband, yuch. What happens the first time one of them splits because as sure as eggs are eggs, that stuff will be dripping wet when it gets to the UK, perhaps we ought to buy a lot of olive wood blanks and see!

One thing I would bet on though is that this is not hobby related. If it were why on earth would you confine your hobby to turning Olive wood? Drive me nuts turning the same wood every day, although his total sales for several months would take us less than a couple of hours.

Wonder how long it will last? He'll get fed up with the sales invoices from paypal soon. If he cant sell big numbers on ebay for that amount there's a message there that's worth learning!

Sadly he isnt doing it to fund a hobby,

I brought a pack of 5 of the blanks he is selling on eBay £4.95 with free postage, they seem to be fine .

Vic

 

[bellringer]

I brought a pack of 5 of the blanks he is selling on eBay £4.95 with free postage, they seem to be fine .

Vic

They look preety plan get some York olive

 

[oaksh]

He might get them from the same place as I do Xiamen Rizheng Industry Co.,Ltd.
They only cost about £2.03 for the kit and you can get olive wood from spain and italy at half the cost of Bethlehem Israel.
Although you probably already know this?

Tony

 

[wm460]

you can get olive wood from of Bethlehem Israel.

Tony

How much olive wood is left in Israel let alone Bethlehem they have been selling planks, bowl blanks etc for years, plus blowing each other up.
Cant be too much left if they still want there olives. Suppose they can import olives etc from China.