I always new it was the right thing to do!

[Neil]

The fact that the chuck could come out of the lathes tapers is the reason I had mine threaded to screw onto the headstock.

Yup, a drawbar or similar concept, but you can't do that into a telescopic quill, unless I've very much mistaken the issue, we're talking about tail stock drilling.

 

[PhillH]

I seemed to remember from the video posted earlier in this thread that the Colt drill was designed specifically for drilling end grain wood, I'll re-watch & check.

That was my point, acrylic drills should have a different profile eg be undercut behind the cutting edge in some way to prevent heat build up and aid chip clearance.

 

[Doug]

Re-watched the video & I was right re the colt being designed for end grain.

That was my point, acrylic drills should have a different profile eg be undercut behind the cutting edge in some way to prevent heat build up and aid chip clearance.

Yep, years ago I used to rout quite a bit of Perspex, I ended up buying a variable speed router so I could cut at a low speed as any build up of heat caused problems.

 

[Woody]

I have just been on the colt web site and watched all there videos and not one of them show drilling on a lathe or recommendations for such a practice like many things to do with turning there will always be a difference of opinion myself personally am a slow driller Brian on the other hand is a fast driller I disagree with him he disagrees with me but we are still the best of friends and could debate the issue till the cows come home and both put up a good argument for our corner but is it really that important Brian is in his workshop doing his thing and producing god results I'm in my workshop attempting to do my thing
Maurice God bless you my friend in all that you do and the way you do it all we do on this forum is express an opinion which we are all entitled to but be assured there will never any malice from any off the members on this forum just strong opinions I understand were you are coming from all you were doing was sharing the danger of not wearing protection but on all forums the subject will always take on its own direction and very often misunderstanding but that is the nature of forums so pleas carry on posting and lets all continue to just enjoy each others post

Regards Woody

 

[Terry]

Maurice I apologise if I offended you as that was not the intention.My main consideration was for your safety and wellbeing.
Drilling is not soley confined to woodturning but is a basic engineering requirement.
A master woodturner I am not but until retirement I was an engineer for 50 years so I know what I am talking about and I have to agree with Walter on this one.
During my working life I worked as a senior engineer for the 2 biggest electrical companies in the world ie General Electric of America and ABB.
I have worked as a senior engineer for the 2 biggest mining companies in the world Rio Tinto Zinc and Billeton.
I have worked as a senior engineer for BP.
During my working life my remit included training Saudi Nationals - Russians - Kazacks - Indians and also Ghanaians in engineering skills.and yes even now I can make simple mistakes when working.

All I wanted was to consider your safety and in my opinion 1500rpm is too fast.

If my posts on your thread have caused annoyance to you or any one else then I will refrain from making any comments on safety or practices and will only comment on finished pens and bowls etc.

 

[Grump]

Well said Sir Woody and thank you.
I don't have anything against drilling slow Nor do i say any way is the right way, all I can say is what I do and what works for me.
I will say that if high speed drilling is so bad why do the drills say they are high speed drills?
I also say Neil is stupid because I know I can talk to him like that and collect my slap next time we meet.
I do it myself but would never condone it because it do init?
Been here before say what you do but don't recommend that others do init?

 

[Neil]

Brian,

In that case we'll book a mutual slapping session next week, milk and sugar?

All,

A thought, if the colt pen drill was designed for pen turners (did I get this right, that was one of their claims?) why is the drill 150mm long, the fluted section being 130mm? The biggest problem with this drill is the strength of the drill relative to the length. the drill wanders over the blank when I drill on a pillar drill and in my opinion it's crap, Thanks to thoughts of some here I now use the dewalt extreme 7 and 8mm drill bits! the wider colts are fine (by me!!).

 

[Jim]

Forums are supposed to be places where likeminded people exchange views (sometime quite forcefully) but vitriolic abuse is not, and can never be, acceptable.
Jim if you think I have expressed myself too forcefully then I will to leave the forum.

Maurice, the last thing i want from you is to leave the forum, i re-read this thread from the very first post to look at it from a layman's point of view and i can see why you wrote this post. But i hope to point out to you why i know you got upset and needed to get it off your chest.

You made this thread to let us members know about the near serious accident that you had while drilling an Acrylic blank on the lathe at 1500rpm, and a very fair point you put across, you don't want this happening to others hence your post. Now the door is open for everyone to put across their views on how it should have been done, reading this as the layman, I see nothing wrong with what was said, reading it as me i see why you found the need to make your post. It is how people come across when giving their views or advice that can be taken the wrong way, and their reply seems to be aimed at someone who doesn't know what they are doing and needs to know how it should be done. All with very good intentions for sure.

If we were all sat around a table in the pub and this issue came up, i would guarantee that what has been said in this thread would be repeated at that table, but the thing that would be different is that we can see facial expressions, tones of voice and body behaviour. Seeing this helps us understand that what is said is not finger pointing but a debate on what each individual deems the right way of doing things.

I hope i sort of got across what i saw in a conversation where everyone thinks that their way is the best/safest way, with no intention of upsetting anyone.

By the way, i also hold on to the chuck while pulling out the drill ...

If my posts on your thread have caused annoyance to you or any one else then I will refrain from making any comments on safety or practices and will only comment on finished pens and bowls etc.

Terry, yours and anyone else's comments are always welcome..

 

[edlea]

Brian,

In that case we'll book a mutual slapping session next week, milk and sugar?

All,

A thought, if the colt pen drill was designed for pen turners (did I get this right, that was one of their claims?) why is the drill 150mm long, the fluted section being 130mm? The biggest problem with this drill is the strength of the drill relative to the length. the drill wanders over the blank when I drill on a pillar drill and in my opinion it's crap, Thanks to thoughts of some here I now use the dewalt extreme 7 and 8mm drill bits! the wider colts are fine (by me!!).

I have a Fisch 7mm which is recommended for pen blanks and had the same problem..so don't use it any more.

 

[Walter]

Been here before say what you do but don't recommend that others do init?

In general Brian I agree with that statement. However, where health and safety is concerned, no amount of accusing me of abuse or telling me I am wrong will stop me from giving people sensible advice. Advice which in my opinion will prevent them from hurting themselves.

Deep drilling on a lathe at high speed in a material which is likely to melt and catch, and grabbing hold (by any technique) of something that may start to revolve and is attached to a powerful electric motor are activities which should be avoided. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves and any professionals who are promoting such techniques should be ashamed of themselves.

If people cannot learn from their own experience and are too full of their own self importance to take the advice of those who seek to protect them from themselves then it is their prerogative to continue. I sincerely hope no harm comes to them but if it does it will be no fault of mine.

 

[Grump]

I know I tend to talk and write in riddles at times and perhaps could express myself a lot clearer than I do.
What was actually in my mind was holding the chuck while withdrawing it to stop it revolving or coming adrift.
I am probably very guilty of this practice, I am sure I can picture myself doing it subconsciously.
Likewise the "been here before" was akin to another advise incident on a previous forum where a certain person kept promoting the use of cloth to polish on a spinning lathe.
The times I said to him you can say what you do but no way can you recommend that others do it, this is not only bad advice the person he was advising would have sued him when he had the inevitable accident.

 

[Neil]

Walter,

You're response is unbecoming of an elder statesman of pen turning. To describe Maurice and or I as being full of our own self importance is outrageously rude and downright inappropriate.

I, nor I suspect Maurice for whom I have no authority to speak for but is able, and I suspect will do in time, have not fooled ourselves. You have failed to answer a question which I posed, as to how you should fit a draw bar on a tail stock drill fitted with a telescopic quill. Please enlighten me, because if it is possible I would be grateful to know how.

I offered no opinion nor advice, as to the drilling speed but merely a method as to how the chuck could be maintained in the tail stock taper when the drill is withdrawn, I am yet to be made aware of an appropriate solution or one that is less likely to render me into an instant A and E case. But to not ensure the chuck taper is securely held in its position whilst withdrawing it is totally foolhardy, or anyone who assumes it is going to be held with total certainty in position withdrawing at whatever speed is, to use your expression, fooling themselves.

 

[Doug]

The problem as I see it is that as soon as you affix hard & fast rules to any operation you start to alienate people who manage quite successfully to do that operation in contravention of those hard & fast rules.
Experience counts for a great deal & the ability to assess risks & minimise them is what experience is all about, the problem is gaining that experience usually means making mistakes along the way.

I've always worked on the theory that if it feels wrong then it most likely is & if I'm not happy doing something then I won't, pointless taking chances.

 

[stevenw1963]

I've always worked on the theory that if it feels wrong then it most likely is & if I'm not happy doing something then I won't, pointless taking chances.

Doug, this has to be the most sensible thing said in this thread.

This should be every-bodies mantra methinks, because we're all going to it different, whether it's sweeping up or hollowing out a 4 foot x 3 foot trunk.

 

[Penpal]

Neil, With a through hole in a tailstock and changing the morse taper stem with a threaded end easy to do imho also needed in a drill press. Of course impossibles will always prohibit why I use the drill press, I stress this may only be for me but as I have said even losing the chuck from the drill press without a draw bar can be drastic. So horses for courses forearmed and forewarned. In our Wood group every item in our shed ten lathes, saw stop bench saw large bandsaw, 12 inch latest style surface planer and so on including the drill press to operate you need certification orally and written where these things are covered. What people do in their own workshop can never be governed only helped by forums and clubs all with the interests of users at heart. By the way the Saw Stop top of the line safeish wise belonging to our woodclub member went into safe mode recently costing hundreds of dollars as each safety stop does with them simply because the guy was cutting picture frame material that had metallic paint on it, very expensive sudden stop, you have to replace the blade always and the safe stop mechanism. The bottom line is cheaping purchases can be negative and expensive items concentrating on safety you have to pay the piper.

What suggestions can be made from all the discussions that may help us can perhaps prevent an accident. Thank you for pointing out many situations prohibit safe drilling of blanks I for one will avoid them totally.

Kind regards Peter.

 

[Walter]

Walter,

You're response is unbecoming of an elder statesman of pen turning. To describe Maurice and or I as being full of our own self importance is outrageously rude and downright inappropriate.

I, nor I suspect Maurice for whom I have no authority to speak for but is able, and I suspect will do in time, have not fooled ourselves. You have failed to answer a question which I posed, as to how you should fit a draw bar on a tail stock drill fitted with a telescopic quill. Please enlighten me, because if it is possible I would be grateful to know how.

I offered no opinion nor advice, as to the drilling speed but merely a method as to how the chuck could be maintained in the tail stock taper when the drill is withdrawn, I am yet to be made aware of an appropriate solution or one that is less likely to render me into an instant A and E case. But to not ensure the chuck taper is securely held in its position whilst withdrawing it is totally foolhardy, or anyone who assumes it is going to be held with total certainty in position withdrawing at whatever speed is, to use your expression, fooling themselves.

Neil

I apologise for my choice of words which I accept was poor and I seek nothing other than to deter people from potentially dangerous practices. I have just been out for a meal and had a few drinks so now is probably not a good time to attempt a better explanation but I will do so tomorrow. For now I concur that it is neither possible nor necessary to fit a draw bar to a tailstock with a telescopic quill, but not all tailstocks are so equipped.

Walter

 

[bellringer]

I drilled once on the lathe and thought this is more difficult then the pillar drill

 

[Woody]

I drilled once on the lathe and thought this is more difficult then the pillar drill

It is Alex pillar drill is much better and quicker I just need a better drill than the one my brother-in-law gave me a small Clarks need I say more but it was good of him

 

[bellringer]

Ye it also safer

 

[Paul]

Maurice

Thank you for the safety advice. I will now be getting a visor.

As you all know I am a complete newbie. 1 bowl, 1 goblet / or duck egg cup and some pens. This forum is invaluable for advice and it's good to get heated amongst friends from time to time. Why ? To have so many people with so much experience with opposite opinions makes me realise that I must not simply follow the books or YouTube but take responsibility and form my own ideas as I approach each risk. A hobby this is, but it's dangerous equipment.

Thus from time to time, to really argue is fantastic for us newbies, so much knowledge, so much advice. So thank you all, and only people who really respect each other can really get stuck in, so I'll pull up the chair and listen and learn. No doubt usual service will resume and you will continue taking the Michael on other topics.

Don't leave Maurice, this has initiated a very valuable debate.